"Historicon 2018 article on www.wargamer.com" Topic

For your information, the focus is really about the specs of the new facility and the surrounding area. My analysis, so I am totally to blame. If you disagree, no worries. My TARDIS is down for parts so I can't prove you wrong:).

DISCLAIMER – PLEASE READ! OK, my statement that Hcon is moving to NJ should be taken in a defacto or semi official context. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this and I am not only limited to three pages of text, but I have to keep this simple because there are a LOT of non-HMGS or tabletop gamers on that site. UNLESS SOMEBODY KNOWS DIFFERENT, the reality is that a technical or legal decision has NOT been made, so the BOD could still sacrifice the $ 5 K and go elsewhere. I don't think that is going to happen, but it could. I do NOT have any inside info from the BOD, so PLEASE don't think that I do.

Also FWIW, I live about 5 minutes from the old Penn Harris, 45 from Lancaster and between Somerset and Freddyburg, the times are nearly the same, so I do not have a dog in this fight.

Anyway, hope you find the information useful. Here is the link.

link

Warmest regards,

/// BILL ///

Wilbur E Gray
Colonel, US Army (Ret)
AOE, PSS, HMGS WFG+

ageofeagles.com

"The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." Thucydides

Nice insightfully assessment.

The best summary I've seen. Thank you. I too,have no dog in the fight: travel times from Indiana keep me out of Historicon, and this would be similar, so the change makes no difference.

Possibly worth noting:

1. The demographics aren't as bad for Fredericksburg as raw population data would suggest. Round up 1,000 random New Yorkers or Bostonians, and you will not get the same percentage of miniature wargamers you'll turn up in Richmond and Raleigh. Someone really ought to do the numbers someday.

2. The Host appears to be undergoing a serious renovation. I think the BOD is wise not to have all three conventions under one roof and if Historicon ever got back to its 4,000 attendees glory days, the loss of the overflow parking lot at the Host would be a serious problem. I just don't want some newbie to read the article and pass on Cold Wars or Fall In! It's still a great place to visit.

Wow…. very good article. I think you did a great job.

Hope ya'll have fun. We will never make H-Con again. It was fun while it lasted, the past 23 or so years.

Excellent summary, Colonel Bill.

Fair, balanced and informative. I would have expected nothing less from you. Plus, the pictures speak for themselves.

Two quick points:

1) For Club Rooms, look to the hotel's floorplan and you will find plenty of rooms in various shapes and sizes. Rest assured that there will be space in one of them for your excellent games (along with the rest of the Carnage and Glory crowd).

2) For nearby food, there is a Ruby Tuesdays right next to the convention location. The salad bar there is made for some HMGS members. For those who do not want to walk/ride that far, the hotel's bar/restaurant was just renovated.

Lastly, for those who are already writing off Historicon because of the move to NJ, I hope you will reconsider. Plenty of us from the Northeast made the trip to VA. Like you, we were not happy when the move to VA was first announced, but we got over it.

I hope you will too.

Nice job.

The union thing could really be bad for dealers. Maybe the BOD has already solved that potential problem.

Tom

The site looks pretty much like current location. I saw one photo of cheap plastic folding chairs. Enough to put me off.

"Round up 1,000 random New Yorkers or Bostonians, and you will not get the same percentage of miniature wargamers you'll turn up in Richmond and Raleigh."

….. I would not be so sure about that.

B

"America will just have to wait to see if union labor (remember, in New Jersey you can't pump your own gas) will be loading or unloading your toys."

I sure hope there's clarification because I really don't want someone else carrying my figs if I'm running a game.

There is a clarification. The BOD can verify, but it looks like the site is NOT a Union location.

Warmest regards,

/// BILL ///

Wilbur E Gray
Colonel, US Army (Ret)
AOE, PSS, HMGS WFG+

ageofeagles.com

"The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." Thucydides

Kleenex for Ceterman…..

Just remember its time for all you Northern members to put up or shut up.

It time for you to show up in your 100's ,running games , and spend lots of money in the Dealers hall.

I drive 28 hours from Denver to go to Historicon, So the location doesn't really matter to me.

Somerset is NON-UNION so let's not get carried away with fear of union types demanding payment for "services rendered". This facility has the same management that runs another facility where NJCON is held every year and in my first hand experience this has NEVER been a concern for all the years the convention has been there. Not a problem for Vendors or Game Masters handling their own materials or displays.

The facility personnel have always been helpful and responsive without ever holding out a hand expecting compensation.

Fear not and have fun.

TRU

I know several people who have done events at the Somerset facility, no unions.

A wonderful facility in New Jersey is like a piece of Grandma's pecan pie sitting on a cow patty.

Wackmole9,

FYI, the "Northern members" (myself included) of HMGS have been showing up in the hundreds to VA for the past few years, running games and spending money. Without them, I suspect Historicon attendance would have dropped below 2000 long ago. No reason they shouldn't show up to NJ.

Hope to see you there.

HMGSNORTH,

I don't know who you are, but I'm starting to enjoy your comments more and more. Keep up the good work.

> A wonderful facility in New Jersey is like a piece of Grandma's pecan pie sitting on a cow patty.

Could be worse, could be in North Carolina for instance.

Now it is true that New Jersey has the worst drivers in the country, but they live in PA and NY…

Yeah, I happen to know a few native NJ wargamers who probably spend more with the vendors than entire states worth of wargamers… at the Toys for Tots auctions, too. There is some disposable income among some of the folks up here;) And if it is so near by, I might run a game or two… and I generally present a nice looking table:)

Can't wait for Historicon to be up here! After years and years of driving hours and hours and hours to cons, it will be lovely to have it nearby.

Ronin you do know who I am………

Cool, because I have no idea who either of you are. But you seem to know me?

Warmest regards,

/// BILL ///

Wilbur E Gray
Colonel, US Army (Ret)
AOE, PSS, HMGS WFG+

ageofeagles.com

"The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools." Thucydides

Well good luck to Historicon. I will not be attending once it moves to NJ. This is not sour grapes it is just a logistical fact. When H-con was in Lancaster I and a number of my gaming friends (who live in the grand ole North state of North Carolina, so kiss my grits Dynaman878) made the regular nine plus hour drive for H-con and Cold Wars.

I will second Wackmole9's comments that it is time for the Northern members who bitched, whined and moaned and even went as far to wish the con to go belly up to now put your cheap asses where your money is.

As I had stated on an earlier thread about the proposed move to NJ, I wish H-con much and continued success. It is the grand daddy of miniature gaming conventions and I have enjoyed attending and being a game master over the years. Sadly, for some of us doing the day long trip gets harder as we age. Or has become the case the number of us who would car pool and share expenses has dropped and driving that long alone is just not fun not to mentioned the added expense puts a big crimp in going.

There is already discussion and movement taking place among us here in the south east to help expand existing war game conventions such as Siege of Augusta and Southern Front as well as perhaps forming a new convention to take the place of attending the northern cons.So glass half full where as Fall In, Cold Wars, and H-con would pull players and vendors away from supporting more local cons in the south east, perhaps now those cons will get a bit more love and support. We will see.

I will say I too found Colonel Bill's article fair handed especially when it came to the comments about cheap and lazy war gamers. I will disagree on the comments on how expensive the hobby is. Of course things being relative I compare the cost of the war gaming hobby to other possible things I could be spending my money on such as say golf, model railroading, radio controlled airplanes and the like, those hobbies are far more expensive. Naturally as with almost all hobbies you get what you put into it. But even in lean times I have found ways to enjoy this hobby. I think when it comes to looking at the possible other ways one could use their disposable income for recreation, table top miniature war gaming has a lot bang for the buck.

I will be most interested in seeing if attendance for H-con does improve post move to NJ. I will also be curious to see if the usual suspects who have derided the BOD and the the management of the HMGS-East cons shut up or will continue their haranguing-or bother to even attend. Anyone want to take bets?

> so kiss my grits Dynaman878

Grits suck. So do cheap shots at my home state.

Uh, from that area to Durham, NC is just about an eight hour drive. Don't know where in NC you are, but…?

And I don't get why so many people on this page seem to be taking shots at folks from the NE…?

Lord Ashram, add a couple more hours if coming from the Charlotte metro area. Durham, NC is about center of the state. When Fall In was at Gettsyburg it was eight hours and Lancaster was nine hours. Fredricksburg is six from Charlotte.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the location in NJ does well and H-con continues. I think all the expectations that attendance will suddenly go back up to the numbers in its hay day are overly optimistic. I think other factors beside the move south to the FC were cause for the drop in attendance for H-con. Of course we will see. You do have more of a population density in the North East. And I am not taking shots at folks from the NE. I am just giving them their due. Go back and read all the vitriol that was poured toward those of us members who are from the south to get some perspective. You would have thought the world had ended when the BOB made the move to Fredericksburg. Not to mention all the folks who seem to think the Host is the ONLY option. It is not, and as has been seen the Host has been a doubtful and untrustworthy place to continue to hold the HMG-East conventions.

@ Dynaman8789, you have just not been raised properly and exposed to this wonderful staple of southern breakfast. If all you have had is that dry stuff that comes out of a box then you have not had real southern grits. And you would think you had died and gone to culinary heaven if you had ever tried and had low country shrimp and grits. Few things in life come as close to being divine. I've had NJ cheap shots and will pass. Give me good ole Kentucky Bourbon or North Carolina Moonshine.

I'll add a bit more to your question Lord Ashram. Many of us here south ways were thrilled when H-con moved to the FC. As I have stated it made the drive to attend a bit more palatable. However, there were a number of extremely vocal and dare I say bigoted members of this forum who continually posted inflammatory comments and made dire statements about the move south often accompanied with derisive statements about us southerns.

I knew one day that H-con would head back north. As Col. Bill's article correctly stated we just do not have the demographic density once you start getting past D.C. Still having H-Con at FC provide the chance for some of our gaming friends further south to finally feel they could make the trip and enjoy the best miniature war gaming convention in the country. Sadly, there were a small, but as said very vocal number of NE members who were disgruntled by the move south and made their feeling more than plain. The irony that some in the group had never bothered to attend the location in FC and so made pronouncement sans any vetted information. It became tiresome. Hence if you sense some fire in my statements perhaps you can understand why I feel I do not need to show anything less than a small amount of ill regard for these persons.

I look forward to attending H-con this coming summer and running games as I always do and of course bringing things to sell in the flea market and spend my coin with the dealers. I will moderate my earlier comment as one should never say never. Perhaps some day it will be feasible for me to attend H-con while it resides in NJ. If not it will not be the end of the world for me or anyone else. I am not that arrogant. Some on this forum I feel lack that perspective.

And as I also stated early I see this as the glass being half full. There is an oportunity for the HMGS_South to grow their conventions or for private venues to see what they can accomplish. After all some of the fastest growing cities are in the South and South East. Perhaps there now is the beginning of a demographic density to take conventions such as Siege of Augusta and Southern Front to the next level. And if not then again it will not be the end of the world. Peace

Kallman, just to offer another perspective….

The whole move thing was born out of a desire to bring Historicon to the "Next Level". Remember that movement??

There were no issues with The Host when the BoD decided to try and move the con to Baltimore. People like James Mattes decided to make up issues based on what could happen. Remember him running around with those cute little buttons "Move Historicon NOW"?? When Pete Panzari and the BoD were pressed for facts on the Baltimore move, the whole BoD fell flat on their faces. When asked how many people they expected to loose, they had no numbers. Nobody did their homework. I wish you were there when Uncle Duke gave an impassioned speech about all the people (internationally) that would come to Historicon if it were moved to Baltimore. When we asked for exact number of people and names, he couldn't name one.

Then we were told Historicon was going to be moved within a triangle no further south than DC. Historicon was moved to FB. Allot of us felt we were flat out lied to. The basic attitude of the BoD was that they were going to move Historicon where they wanted it and we'd attend – like good little soldiers. The BoD was told that people were not going to make that trip. That fell on deaf ears. I don't think it was ever anything against the people from down south. The whole move was just handled poorly.

Sadly, who paid the price for that whole pipe dream? The vendors.

What I found most interesting is that FB lost attendance over the years. I thought it would level out – but never did I think it would continue to shrink. I still can't get my head around that.

Ultimately, something needed to be done. You cannot keep having a convention that is losing attendees and money. We now have a BoD that is willing to untangle this mess. Sad to say, not everyone is going to be happy. I wish they could have found someplace between Lancaster and FB.

As you said, I'm not taking shots at anyone. Just offering a different perspective.

Just remember its time for all you Northern members to put up or shut up.

Not to be rude – but we have been "putting up". Cold Wars and Fall In are very well supported.

King30,

Ya'll have been singing the same song for seven years now, and it's fallen out of the top 40 in case you missed it!

So here's another perspective for you! Has the attendance numbers at either Cold Wars, or Fall In seen a dramatic increase since Historicon moved to FB? Has either of those two shows topped the 2000 mark in attendance over the last five years? I can pretty much bet neither has! So much for the talk about moving one of those to FB! Why, because the numbers can't justify the move!

So now, starting in 2018, you have what you wanted! Good Luck with it! As we like to say down here, "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander!" We're organized, and of one mind, like you all we will vote with our feet! Not just with Historicon, but for all three shows! Why? Because we can!

Kleenex for vagamer………

So now, starting in 2018, you have what you wanted! Good Luck with it! As we like to say down here, "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander!" We're organized, and of one mind, like you all we will vote with our feet! Not just with Historicon, but for all three shows! Why? Because we can!

Wow…. maybe you can get a convention going and grow it – Like Historicon! Oh wait, we remember how that ended…

Paging Otto to do some investigating to find the Cold Wars and Fall In numbers.

2007 3,478 Host
2008 3,667 Host
2009 3,565 Host
2010 2,980 VFCC
2011 2,946 VFCC
2012 2,720 Fredericksburg
2013 2,727 Fredericksburg
2014 2,441 Fredericksburg
2015 2,450 Fredericksburg
2016 2,336 Fredericksburg

Pretty soon vagamer, Historicon won't have 2000 attendance either.

Over priced, over crowded and over the Delaware.

Thanks for those numbers TSD101 and as I said there are other factors to consider beyond just the move to FB for H-con. 2007 we were in the beginning of the Great Recession, but the impact did not go as deep until a few years into the slump. Combined with moving the convention about, gamers opting out due to have either lost a job or having their wages stagnant (I went four years without a raise, had a family crisis that took front and center and started graduate school) plus other intangibles and I think there is a broader consideration for the drop in attendance.

Again, I do not want to flail this equine corpse. I see HMGSNORTH (one of the usual suspects) is keeping the same tune he has espoused ad nauseum. Fine, you will get your wish in 2018. Enjoy, and I hope the numbers are there for H-con and it prospers. I mean that. And with that I have nothing more to add.

@Vagamer63…

Looking at my response to you, it's pretty sarcastic. Honestly, there's no need for that. Sorry about that.

I'd like to offer this piece of advice… get involved in the local conventions. But do it because it makes you happy – not out of spite.

When Historicon moved to FB, I didn't want to drive that distance. Kallman summed that up the best – it was, logistically, just too much. This left me open to attend The Weekend. The Weekend is nothing like the HMGS conventions. However, I still had a blast. I found that I could care less about the conventions – as long as I was pushing lead, eating and socializing with my friends I was gonna have a good time.

All that to say – I hope where ever you and your friends wind up, you guys don't loose sight of the fact that you're gonna have a great time – as long as you're doing it together.

Number4 "Over priced, over crowded and over the Delaware"

Have not seen you post before. Must not be a Wargamer nor a History buff. According to our Teachers up North. We learned that when Washington crossed the Delaware, he rallied the Army, gained 2 victories and some may say saved the Revolution for the colonies. Not to shabby for one crossing a River.

BTW I love grits, but we cant find good one up here in the North. Please pack them when coming to Historicon 2018. Much appreciated!!

Oh good. We're still blaming the recession eight years ago, even though attendance at the nadir of that contraction was fifty percent higher.

It's somehow refreshing to see there's still no place for reality in any of these discussions.

some effects can lead and some can lag. Known phenomena in the world of economics.

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't know a single person who stopped going because of their financial situation. I'm not saying they aren't out there, I'm just saying that's not what stopped people I know from going to the FCC. For most I know, it was location. No doubt some will stop going when it moves to NJ too. The question will be (just as it was at FCC) if enough other people start going once it moves there.

Well historygamer then good for you that you and your circle of friends felt no ill effects from the economic downturn. Bravo!

Well, I know of at least 6 gamers who dropped Hcon (and the other East cons) due to the economic down turn. 2 lost their jobs, 3 had their companies threatening wholesale layoffs and the last one had his salary cut. So, yes, some people DID suffer a DIRECT impact from the Great Recession that led to their not attending.

As for the "some cons grew" notion: A lot of factors there. For some, the yearly trek to a GenCon, ComicCon or other cons is the highpoint of the year. They'll forego other expenses just to afford that one con, regardless. Another factor is demographics. Some cons draw a younger crowd, one that that, generally, has more discretionary income (as compared to us older farts who have mortgages, kids in college and all the other expenses that come with middle-age and up). This group can and will go, in spite of other factors.

Finally, just how hard someone got hit by the Great Recession depends a lot on where you were and what you were doing at the time. If you were in real estate in a hot market or in mortgage banking, you felt it hard and fast. If you were a retiree with a union pension living in a slow area with your house paid off, you hardly felt a ripple (although that retiree would still feel some effects, but at a much more diffused level). Records also show that many soon to retire people (with heavy 401ks) has to defer their retirement due to their portfolios taking a hit in the market down turn that followed (thankfully, most of that loss has been recovered in the last 8 years. But the fact remains, some people had to stay on "working for the man" in spite of their plans).

So, yes, HG some people stopped coming because of the Great Recession. As for your small group, I'm glad they weathered it without having to sacrifice the cons.

Colonel Bill thank you for a well laid out article showing where the best wargaming show in the world will be hosted from 2018.

For me since discovering the show when it was at the Valley Forge site in 2010 I have attended all bar last year (due to family issues).

All sites have their good points and bad and I have enjoyed every show and where possible run a game to help keep them vibrant.

I will be there in 2017 and I look forward to seeing my Southern friends and having a few beers to celebrate another successful show.

I am sorry that it was felt by some that it was failing and needed to be moved. In my reading of the reports from the BOD I have never seen that the show has not covered it's costs and not been enjoyed by the people that have attended.

However, I accept that democracy has worked and a new BOD who feel that a move is needed is now upon us. For me that is not an issue as flying into EWR or IAD is not an issue and if anything it will be cheaper for me at the new location. I will not need to hire a car. I will however miss the opportunity to explore the ACW sites that I had while the show was at FCC.

I am sad that my buddies from down South will not be able to attend and that will take the edge off for me as the show is as much about gaming friends as the games.

What does miff me is the ongoing campaign that has taken place to vilify the previous BOD's and the move to FCC and the campaign to get the show moved North. Some people have said that it has failed at FCC where I view it differently.

It has made a profit and the people that attended have enjoyed it. That is a success in my book.

Funny that people use the decline in numbers to show failure yet they also complain about previous BOD who sought to take it to new level?

So I wonder in 2018 what is an acceptable to say that the show is a success?

What numbers are acceptable for the show not to be moved again?

I doubt we will have the same arguments from the Southern members who have been on the whole pretty graceful about the move planned for 2018. I am sure we will not end up with the same level of attacking the show as we have had the last few years. It is a pity that some Northern Members have sought to s*it stir and goad others, really rather sad and I hope people continue to not feed certain trolls as they add nothing.

As for decline in numbers I have been part of those discussions and it is obvious that location is a "part" of the reason but not the whole reason. We are still suffering the worlds worse depression and the effects of the Banking crash are still being felt.E.G. The Riots in UK jails are in part due to Govt spending cuts as the UK are still trying to balance books and the US Govt has similar issues. So to ignore the economy and this recession is folly.

Anyway enough typing…

I look forward to 2017 when I can say hello to my gaming buddies and have more great American ale, dice rolling and some laughs. Let's make the last FCC show a great one.

Holien, all I can say is …. Wow. If you're not working as a spin doctor for a living, you need to change careers.

But let's look at some of the tangibles…

1) The convention has been at the FCC for five years and the attendance numbers continue to decline – despite the best efforts of the BoD. We started FCC with 2,720 and last year there were 2,336 attendees. That's 384 people that felt it wasn't worth the effort to come. And that doesn't factor in the initial 226 we lost in the move from VF to FCC. In total, since the the move to FCC, we've lost 610 people. We can attribute some of this to the economy, greying of the hobby, etc. but the fact remains – something needs to be done. I think we can all agree the price of the FCC isn't cheap and hasn't declined.

2) The dealers aren't happy with the sales figures. Lon from Brigade and Old Glory have previously commented they were thinking of no longer attending because of the dismal sales.

3) The previous BoD was "vilified" because of the lack of research they put into the move. They sought to take the convention to the "Next Level" yet didn't bother to understand the ramifications of a move to either Baltimore or FCC. I know this because I was at the membership meetings.

4) Criteria for success – that's a good question. If the numbers stay stagnant I'd consider that a minor success. Reason – The new location is cheaper than the FCC. If the numbers increase after five years, then I'd consider it a success.

Happy holidays all!

Funny that people use the decline in numbers to show failure yet they also complain about previous BOD who sought to take it to new level?

The latter caused the former. It's not funny at all, Holien.

Nicely said, King30.

Agreed – Any "vilification" of the BoD has been directed toward those gentlemen responsible for the awesomely incompetent Baltimore program to move HCon to "the next level". So many assertions made with respect to so many topics (parking, security, no union problems, etc) turned out to be so wrong that one would have willingly believed that it was National Lampoon Historicon in action.

Vilification? To many is was totally justified criticism of an unbelievable tragicomedy of incompetence that ended up costing HMGS a fortune in both money and credibility.

B

I have no real knowledge of the Baltimore BOD, my comments relate to the various negative comments and attacks made for the move to FCC.

Perhaps they were same people, I don't know? What I do know is the BOD were doing the best they could at that time for HCon. They moved it to FCC and it paid for itself and people enjoyed it, that is success.

I have no real knowledge of the Baltimore BOD, my comments relate to the various negative comments and attacks made for the move to FCC

Someone should take the time to explain to you the proposed move to Baltimore. It was one of the ultimate fiascos. Without having that background information it's tough to see where the long time attendees of Historicon are coming from. It's almost like trying to understand the beginning of WWII without understanding the end of WWI.

What I do know is the BOD were doing the best they could at that time for HCon

Maybe at that time it was the best they could do. This is 2016 – currently Historicon is bleeding attendees and it's time to do something different.

They moved it to FCC and it paid for itself and people enjoyed it, that is success.

Stay with me here. Let's eliminate things we cannot measure – like people enjoying it. If Historicon broke even in 2016, it was just barely. I was initially told it lost money.

As for "success" – that's a term that has many different connotations. Losing 610 attendees in my eyes isn't success. Let's translate this into dollars – 610 lost attendees x 25.00 USD = 15,250.00 USD. Using GBP that's 12,212.21. If losing that much money is successful, then we'll agree that we have a different definition for the word "success".

Either way, I think we can both agree a convention cannot continue to lose attendees and vendors and hope to remain in the black. What do we call a convention that continues to lose attendees?? A defunct convention.

All that to say this – Right now you must be tickled pink with the current BoD. They're taking steps to assure that there will be a Historicon in the future.

However, if you're just not happy with Historicon moving to NJ (and not all people are happy with this move), then perhaps you might look into attending some of the other conventions – such as Williamsburg Muster or Guns of August. I know that there are a few members from the southerns states that are giving these conventions some serious consideration. Here's a link to one of them:

link

Ultimately I hope you do find a convention that has all your friends and you throughly enjoy.

TheKing30 wrote:

When Pete Panzari and the BoD were pressed for facts on the Baltimore move, the whole BoD fell flat on their faces. When asked how many people they expected to loose, they had no numbers. Nobody did their homework.

Not true. One member did. He also expressed his many concerns about the venue gained from personal experience and voted "NO" to the move.

DM

"When asked how many people they expected to loose, they had no numbers. Nobody did their homework."

King30, in general agreement with your positions, except this one – How on earth could anyone predict attendance? It might go up, it might go down, it might stay the same. Any time the BoD moves a con it is an unknown.

Don is right. He did vote against the move, and was one of the few. My own behind the scenes urging was that if they wanted to move a con to the BCC, start with FI instead of Hcon.

That said, few seem to remember here that during the last two years of Hcon at the Host, dealers were being stuffed into closets. Some dealers were downstairs in the pro shop building. There was a long list of dealers waiting to get into the con. The whole place was at max capacity, and this with the con having one of the best management teams ever. Ever square inch of the Host was used.

No one could have foreseen the economy, the eventual decline of the Host, and all the other things that took place.

For me, the writing was on the wall for the BCC when they tried out a small game day there. It was a very nice facility inside, but in the end it didn't mean our requirements for easy access, parking, and hotels. That said, the money spent after to get out of it was an entirely different matter.

Who knows how Hcon will fair in NJ? Who knows if attendance goes up or down? Like any business venture, it is a crap shoot. To me, the most disturbing thing is that with each move, the mileage of the moves keeps getting more significant.

Well to add my thoughts on this- I was a professional convention planner for 12 years -mostly Pharma ,but in a number of other industries and hobby areas (including not for profit )
in no particular order – Actually you can predict attendance fairly accurately (+/- 3%) for most every style of convention -If an organization wants and is willing to show accurate data. . That is what part of what professional event planners do. And also to analyze why the numbers are growing or declining .
I think that is a large part of the problem -The BOD has not bothered/ (or don't know how ) to get accurate and useful attendance info and pass it along in a meaningful manner .

I would argue about the gracefulness of southern members- perhaps they are only the very vocal minority ,But they are very vocal . There are some that are reasonable ,others not so much .Same for the group in the north .

The other thing to think about is that perhaps Historicon is merely going to its naturel level of attendance .
There are 3 convention relatively close to each other -all essentially identical -except for the time of year. There is a finite number of gamers with a finite amount of money to be spent . ……..
Has the BOD ever done an attendance study ? what are the total amount of unique attendees for al 3 conventions ?