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"Info on aircraft colors by Jasta and squadron? " Topic


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970 hits since 7 Dec 2016
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Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2016 8:07 a.m. PST

I know that the German Jasta had individual color schemes, such as the green tail outlined in red for Jasta 5. But not all planes through the war followed that.

The same is true of British and French squadrons. What were the identifying marks?

Are there sites or books that have that information?

I would also like to find multiple pictures of the planes in each unit. I can find lots of pictures of WWI aircraft on line, but only some are identified by Jasta and squadron and I know that some are just made up--but which ones.

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2016 8:14 a.m. PST

You can start here, probably won't get exactly what you are looking for tho:

wp.scn.ru

Allen5707 Dec 2016 9:28 a.m. PST

German pilots painted their machines as they pleased. Fuselages in general sported the pilot's monogram or perhaps his favourite color. As the war progressed the wings of most aircraft were camouflaged. A squadron theme was sometimes followed, with machines decorated in similar colours or with similar motifs but generally personal preference seems to have been standard. There were around 90 Jastas. I would suggest that you research a few of the more famous ones and apply their color schemes. IIRC Osprey had several books on German aircraft colors and markings.

In general France, Great Britain, and the US aircraft used standard colors with a squadron insignia on the fuselage sides. Again, Osprey may have something to help.

The International Plastic Modelers society can also be surprisingly helpful when trying to find color schemes. Those guys do a lot of research for their models.

Chris Wimbrow07 Dec 2016 9:32 a.m. PST

The Aerodrome is a good site for getting answers to such questions.

theaerodrome.com/index.php

Find your way around and meet the members.

But keep in mind that some people have devoted their lives to such research and expect to get paid for it whether a book or a one-off illustration.

Chris Wimbrow07 Dec 2016 9:40 a.m. PST

picture

Some of it can get pretty bizarre.

Waco Joe07 Dec 2016 10:40 a.m. PST

Dave Jackson you read my mind. I just got in a shipment of planes from Shapeways and was thinking, what was that site with all the images.

Much grass to you.

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2016 11:18 a.m. PST

Well, Waco Joe, it seems my work here today is done, (wipes hands together in a satisfied manner, grabs coat and leaves..)

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2016 6:31 p.m. PST

German pilots painted their machines as they pleased.

Allen57:

Yes, that is true for most part, but I did find this:

Jasta 1 = black fin, white rudder
Jasta 2 = white tailplanes
Jasta 3 =
Jasta 4 = black spiral band around fuselage
Jasta 5 = green tailplanes with red outline
Jasta 6 = white tailplane with 2 longitudinal black stripes
Jasta 7 = all black fuselage and tailplane
Jasta 8 = white tailplane and fin with red latitudinal stripes
Jasta 9 =
Jasta 10 = yellow nose
Jasta 11 = red fuselage front
Jasta 12 = black rear fuselage and tailplane
Jasta 13 = green nose; blue rear fuselage + tailplane; white fin + rudder
Jasta 14 = black+white longitudinal stripe on fuselage sides
Jasta 15 = red nose part; Prussian blue fuselage and tailplane
Jasta 16 = black tailplane
Jasta 17 = white tailplane + fin; black rudder
Jasta 18 (1917) = red forward fuselage; Prussian blue rear fuselage + tailplane
Jasta 18 (1918) = Vermillion red forward fuselage; white rear fuselage + tailplane
Jasta 19 = dark green rudder
Jasta 21 = dark green spinner and fuselage back; black+white fuselage band
Jasta 22 = olive green fin, white rudder
Jasta 23 = black tailplane with white latitudinal band
Jasta 24 = white forward fuselage
Jasta 26 = black+white striped fuselage ("Zebras")
Jasta 27 = yellow spinner and tailplane; black fuselage
Jasta 28 = yellow tailplane with 2 longitudinal black stripes
Jasta 29 = ?
Jasta 32 = black tailplane, white spinner
Jasta 34 = white fuselages
Jasta 35 = white chevron on the top of the top wing and a black chevron on the under side of the bottom wing
Jasta 36 = blue forward fuselage
Jasta 37 = white tailplane with black diagonal stripes
Jasta 40 (1917) = med green + white tailplanes
Jasta 40 (1918) = black fuselage, white tailplane
Jasta 50 = white tailplane with 2 black chevrons
Jasta 64 = black tailplanes with 2 longitudinal red stripes
Jasta 65 (1917) = deep red forward fuselage
Jasta 65 (1918) = Deep red forward fuselage; Prussian blue rear fuselage; white fin + rudder
Jasta 69 = yellow forward fuselage, black mid fuselage; yellow tailplane; white fin + rudder
Jasta 70 = deep red nose and tailplane; white rudder and elevator
Jasta 71 = white tailplane with 3 longitudinal stripes; red fin
Jasta 72 = Saxon green nose and hood; white tailplane, fin + rudder
Jasta 73 = black spiral band around fuselage, Zebra tailplane, white rudder
Jasta 74 = dark blue nose section
Jasta 75 = grey tailplane with 3 white longitudinal stripes; white fin, elevator + rudder
Jasta 76 = dark blue rudder and tailplane with 2 longitudinal white stripes
Jasta 77 = lilac spinner, tailplane, fin and rudder
Jasta 78 = ?
Jasta 79 = dark blue tailplane with 3 longitudinal light blue stripes; white spinner
Jasta 80 = black tailplane with two longitudinal white stripes; black fin, white rudder

And you see this in large part with the pictures of the aircraft I have found, even though the schemes weren't followed by every flyer, particularly when changing Jastas. for example, you can tell which Jastas most of these planes flew with:

picture

picture

link

link

link

link

The last three planes are from Jasta 30.

Allen5707 Dec 2016 7:47 p.m. PST

McLaddie,

Correct sir. As an example most aircraft of Jasta 1 had a black fin, white rudder (at some point in the war) but beyond that the pilots painted the machine as they pleased. Of course this was further complicated by camouflage, or not, on the wings. Welcome to the world of WWI aircraft color schemes.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2016 8:23 p.m. PST

Allen:
Yep, the pilots painted the machine as they pleased. What I am looking for is several paint schemes from the same Jasta. I've found the most information so far on Jasta 5.
I'd like to have all my planes of one model from the same Jasta.

Don:
I have just about exhausted my new found knowledge of different squadron and Jasta 'liveries', but I thought the paint schemes were to help when in the air to:

1. Identify the unit the plane was in [For instance, Jagdgeschwader 1/JG1] when several units were flying together.
2. Identified the pilot
3. Frighten or impress an opponent.
4. It added a little 'spirit' to the whole thing.

For me, yes: Gaming encounters with particular squadrons and Jastas.

Personal logo Great War Ace Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2016 8:22 p.m. PST

Blitz! My favorite Albatros paint scheme.

Timmo uk09 Dec 2016 2:42 p.m. PST

McLaddie,

I'm not sure why you are finding it so hard – there's masses out there on-line. Have you simply tried Googling something like Jasta 11 Fokker DR1 or Jasta 19 just as two examples?

The Osprey Aircraft of the Aces series of books are a really excellent source of information. Also the Elite Aviation Unit series are excellent.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP09 Dec 2016 4:41 p.m. PST

Timmo:

Yes, I've found one or two for a few Jastas. Of course, Jasta 11 gets a lot of notice. But if I want more than two planes of say a D V in the same Jasta, then it gets hard to find. I just purchased an Osprey book on JG 3 that has some wonderful examples for each Jasta, but only more than two for just one Jasta… and those all look alike with little variation--which makes me wonder why so much space was given over to them.

The other Osprey books are on aces, not Jastas or British squadrons.

For instance, Jasta 5. Two versions that seem to be everywhere on the internet--even decals for them, but that's it… or one odd picture with no source or information… being a computer generated game picture, I don't know if it's legit.

I decided to have four planes from the same Jasta… without knowing what I was asking. grin It kind of goes like this, is a smattering of color schemes:

picture

With some of the German planes I can identify the Jasta by coloring, but the British/French/Am planes by squadron, no.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2016 11:48 a.m. PST

I was looking back at earlier threads, which I hadn't done and found this wonderful picture o Jasta 5 aircraft:

link

I found many more examples of other Jasta here. Very inspirational.

link

Timmo uk10 Dec 2016 2:11 p.m. PST

If you get the Osprey book on JGII Berthold then cross reference that with what you'll find on the net you'll end up with over 50 schemes. Ideally if you can buy the books on the JG formations and the Aircraft of the Aces series and look at the net and cross reference it all you'll get a lot. What you won't find much of is planes from lesser known squadrons but sometimes if you see two or three examples you can make up more. I think J34 falls into this bracket IIRC.

Lots of Jasta 19 DR1s are known as are lots of J15's Fokker VII, and at least 25 other schemes for other types they flew.

Just stick in Jasta 5 into Google – I reckon that will throw up at least a dozen if not more – I've just tried it.

picture

link

If you model in 1/72 you can get comprehensive decals sheets for J5 of which at least 12 schemes if not more are known. I think it was Windsock that published a two volume book on J5 in which all the known schemes are detailed.

link

If you model in 1/144 Doms decals do sheets for J19 and J15. I know as I suggested these to Dom when we realised what could be done with the first two Series of WoW planes. I had to buy multiple sheets to make sure they hit the 20 orders required to get them into production!

Google Jasta 18 – that search alone will throw up at least a dozen from J15 and J18

Then google Jasta 15 and you'll get stacks more.

Then try Jasta 12– you get the picture it's that easy.

If you can afford them buy some Osprey books and get on the net and keep asking questions. I'll grant you it's hard to find out more than one or two for the lesser known squadrons but there is really good info on:

Jastas 2/4/5/6/10/11/12/13/15/17/18/19/30/37

There's enough out there for you to field at anything between half a dozen and twenty plus from each of these squadrons if you consider their whole service career.

What I do for the lesser squadrons is to have a few models in bog standard factory finish so if I even know one or two fancy schemes I can put together a historically plausible flight.

New research is being done all the time – Ospreys book on Jasta 17 enabled me to add them to the list of 'lots known' and that book was published this year I think or late last year.

Beyond suggesting these very easy resources to get hold of, funds permitting, I'm not sure why you feel you can't find the info. Try doing some lateral searches like 'decals for Fokker Dr1' and terms like that.

Lots of those models on the Wings of War/Glory forum have been painted using widely available references. Some schemes are made up of course but many aren't.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP10 Dec 2016 4:04 p.m. PST

Timmo:

Thank you. I started with trying to find markings for British squadron 60 markings [and colors] WWI and got everything from baby pictures to Margaret Thatcher. Didn't even try Jastas because of that.

Terrific pictures. I think I can do some four+ plane squadrons now.

Timmo uk11 Dec 2016 7:05 a.m. PST

No problem. I think I had a sense of your frustration. I often get an Italian meal when I stick Jasta into Google…

If in your hunting you come across any MFJ schemes do let me know. I have a few but would like to find more.

I'll have look at my books later on to see if I have much on 60 squadron.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP11 Dec 2016 6:25 p.m. PST

Perhaps someone could answer this question. Back in 2009 there was a thread on someone making decals for the US squadron 9 [flying Sopwith Camels]

Were those ever made/available?

Camcleod19 Dec 2016 12:26 p.m. PST

If you are looking for Jasta or Sqn. colour schemes look at Pheon Decals:
https://www.pheondecals.com

He does sheets in 1/32, 1/48 & 1/72 of the same J or Sqn. with a large cover sheet of all the choices.
ie. Jasta 40
link

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2016 12:39 p.m. PST

Very nice. Thanks Camcloed.

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