| Tango01 | 06 Dec 2016 9:46 p.m. PST |
"Could the Soviets have won the Cold War? In retrospect, Soviet defeat seems overdetermined. The USSR suffered from a backwards economy, an unappealing political system, and unfortunate geography. But even into the 1980s, many Cold Warriors in the West worried that Red Victory was imminent. We can think of Red Victory in two ways; first, if the fundamental rules of the competition between the United States and the USSR had operated differently, and second if Moscow and Washington had made different strategic decisions along the way. Changing the Rules The idea of socio-political "rules" that dictate how the world works runs counter to a lot of work in the social sciences. Still, certain social and political experiments initiated at the start of the Cold War ran aground on the shoals of social and human capacity. If we imagine the loosening of some of these "rules" then the Soviet and American experiments might have performed differently…"
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link Amicalement
Armand |
| Mako11 | 06 Dec 2016 10:57 p.m. PST |
I guess it depends upon your definition of "winning", e.g. the more traditional definition of the word, or the Charlie Sheen, Yemen Conflict definition. The former definition – no. The latter one, definitely yes. |
| nickinsomerset | 07 Dec 2016 2:42 a.m. PST |
Invade on a Wednesday afternoon, weekend or Christmas! Tally Ho! |
| Chokidar | 07 Dec 2016 3:59 a.m. PST |
There was a very real chance of a victory in either sense into the seventies; Europe has ever been reticent to pay for its defence, its political parties were often more concerned to demonstrate their anti-US stance than to think about their own defence. Several European countries starting with "you know who", always flirted with Russia, and communist parties and influence were not rare. "You know who" also managed to have a communist defence minister at one stage (who also desplayed a disquieting habit of taking files if not work home!). European defence spending and readiness was laughable, and the whole concept – ex the US and the kick up the proverbial provided by Ronnie and Maggie – was the idea that war was unthinkable. If Soviet meltdown had occurred prior to Ronnie and Maggie upping the stakes.. who knows.
Now.. if we fast forward to today… |
| Mick the Metalsmith | 07 Dec 2016 6:53 a.m. PST |
Not as long as nukes existed. |
| cosmicbank | 07 Dec 2016 7:55 a.m. PST |
I think the Cold War was always about Bluff. Sure they all would have fought but how hard did the little NATO countries want to fight to save Germany. I think a lot of them went along because the Base for NATO was the Alantic coalition to invade France and free Europe from Getmany. If the Soviets would have made it plain from the start that they had no designs on Belguim, Holland and Denmark depending on when and who is in power, The leaders might move slow or keep troops home to defend the homeland. Once Germany is overrun it is to the peace table and all is good. |
| cosmicbank | 07 Dec 2016 7:59 a.m. PST |
War has always been counter productive and illogical. But so is burning the Football arena to the ground because you lost. |
| whitphoto | 07 Dec 2016 8:21 a.m. PST |
Did anyone 'win' the Cold War? Russia is still a dictatorship that invades countries it wants and uses proxy governments to thwart our goals. Unless your definition of winning a Cold War is simply not escalating to a nuclear Armageddon… |
| Pan Marek | 07 Dec 2016 9:48 a.m. PST |
By my reading, the vaunted Soviet juggernaut was not really prepared to go to war. Sure, they had ALOT of stuff, but parts, maintenance and training were far behind. Of course, this information did not come out until their archives were opened after the USSR fell apart. It does, however, explain why they never took their chance. 20-20 hindsight indicates that theirs was an unsustainable economic/political model, and all we needed to do was wait them out. One could be cynical and say the 80's buildup was to feed the defense industry while allowing Reagan to look "tough". |
| Col Durnford | 07 Dec 2016 11:19 a.m. PST |
Based on the Hollywood propaganda machine, they won. |
| Airborne Engineer | 07 Dec 2016 11:31 a.m. PST |
They did, November 4th 1980. But Carter lost the election. |
| Airborne Engineer | 07 Dec 2016 11:33 a.m. PST |
The Soviet juggernaut was ill prepared in 1941 also, and it didn't work out so well for the invader. |
| 11th ACR | 07 Dec 2016 11:44 a.m. PST |
During the height of the Vietnam War the could have made it to the Rhine River on time. Not sure for pushing on words after that. |
| Mako11 | 07 Dec 2016 3:39 p.m. PST |
Yes, Ronnie, America, and the West won the Cold War, since Reagan was an economics major, and knew the USSR couldn't compete with our military buildup. He forced the Soviets to bankrupt their nation, trying to maintain parity, and they eventually capitulated since they couldn't match us militarily, or economically. Then, the USSR fell apart. Putin is still mad about it to this day. |
 Legion 4  | 07 Dec 2016 3:46 p.m. PST |
Putin is still mad about it to this day.
So the "war" is still on … and Putin knows it … Recent US leadership lacked any real policies on many geopolitical matters, etc., … And Putin knows that too … |
| Mako11 | 07 Dec 2016 10:55 p.m. PST |
Actually, was off for a bit, so this is now Cold War II. |
| Dynaman8789 | 08 Dec 2016 5:08 a.m. PST |
Then China started eating our lunch. Make no mistake about it still being communist either. Although my history professor who lived there said it is still much more like the old imperial system of warlords and there is a case to be made for that as well. |
| Andy P | 08 Dec 2016 5:21 a.m. PST |
Don't forget Germany would of been a nuclear wasteland, if we couldn't keep it, we were not willing to let them have it either hence why the British government planned to plant nuclear mines in Germany! |
| Zargon | 08 Dec 2016 12:36 p.m. PST |
So nobody here likes borst? No the Soviets could never have won, but they could have helped everyone lose. "Russia is still a dictatorship that invades countries it wants and uses proxy governments to thwart our goals" A, The Russians don't seem to think they're in a dictatorship so who are we to talk.
B, Who is 'our' in this goal thing that certainly sounds very dictator like.
Ask yourself this question. If a country had some people who spoke American, thought American and was happy being American yet lived in that country that didn't want them to be able to exercise their rights to be ethnically 'American' would you being American not want to help them out? Look closer to the situation and you will see 'our goals' are part of the problem. |
| capncarp | 08 Dec 2016 6:15 p.m. PST |
Zargon, during the Great Patriotic War, most Soviets loved Uncle Joe, too. |
| Zargon | 09 Dec 2016 2:24 a.m. PST |
On pain of death definitely not pain of media or twitter.
It is I hope you realize a different world.
But maybe peoples on both (all) maybe wish it wasn't.
And sometimes we get what we wish for and then wish we hadn't. Let's hope not anon. |
| Legion 4 | 09 Dec 2016 9:40 a.m. PST |
I'm just glad we never had to find out. And serving at the time in the US ARMY Infantry, '79-'90. I'm very happy we never had to find out ! |
| Mick the Metalsmith | 12 Dec 2016 7:04 p.m. PST |
I think the last elections might mean they did! |
| Tango01 | 04 Jun 2021 4:28 p.m. PST |
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| Wolfhag | 06 Jun 2021 2:18 p.m. PST |
A war is only over when one side surrenders. I don't recall the Soviets waving a white flag or signing the documents of surrender. In order to survive, they've morphed. Just like Red China coming out of the (not so) Great Revolution and embracing their version of Capitalism. Wolfhag |
| Legion 4 | 09 Jun 2021 6:43 a.m. PST |
The war with Putin's Russia continues. By the recent hackings of major US businesses, regardless of Putin's denials, he is showing he can still attack the US. And do some sort of damage, without firing a shot. Especially in the current state of the USA's leadership. Predators can sense weakness … |
says he's pretty happy with these babes...
