"Help with Austro-Hungarian OOB in Serbia 1914" Topic

Hey all,

I recently made a large purchase from Pendraken, to recreate the 1914 battles in the Balkans. I found great OOB for both the Austrians and Serbs, but need a bit of help interpreting the madness that is the Austro-Hungarian army.

I'm going to have my standard units as regiments, with most commands being divisions. Thus, I've been scouring the OOB for divisional and regimental names.

Many of the Austrian divisions are pretty self explanatory, with clear division numbers and regimental numbers.

However, I found that whereas the V Army is really easy to follow, the VI Army is all over the place. Listed below is the 1st division:

1.ID. (Sarajevo): FML. Stephan Bogat von Kostanjević
7.GbBrig.: GM. Otto Sertić, IBaone II/5, IV/25, II/34, II/66, II/85, III/86, GrJgKomp.3, 1 Zug 1. Schwd. UR.12, 3.,4. KnBt. GAR.10
9.GbBrig.: Obst. Joseph Hrozný, IBaone IV/12, III/49, III/74, IV/84, IV/87, 1 Zug 1. Schwd. UR.12, 1. KnBt. GAR.11

Am I correct to assume that when it says II/5, that means that the II battalion of the 5th Regiment was part of this infantry division? Thus, this division is made up of components from numerous regiments as opposed to single regiments with all its battalions?

Thanks! Any help would be much appreciated.

Jared

While I can't help you specifically, I have read quite a few books on WW1 in the East and in Serbia, Rumania, etc and yes, the AH army would do stuff like throw together a division with mixes of battalions from various regiments. They did a lot of head scratching stuff.

What rules are you using. Great War Spearhead has a very good scenario book on the Eastern Front in 1914, including the early Serb-Austro/Hungarian Battles. It might be worth to get just for the OOBs.

Hi Jared, it will depend on the convention that the author has used. This can vary, unfortunately. In general, an infantry brigade in this context would comprise two regiments. Each regiment would have three to four battalions. This fits with your assumption.

Robert

KTravlos: I'm using Field of Battle WW1, which I'm adapting for grand tactical play. I do have GWSH and the charts and OOB were very helpful. That said, I'm really trying to get regimental names and numbers, which I've found online. But as the example above shows, some of the AH units are difficult to wrap my head around. Seems like they used conglomerate formations in some cases, pulling battalions from different regions.

Hey Robert,

Thanks…definitely helpful.

Do you know if GbBrig means mountain troops?

J

Yes, that was my interpretation – Gebirgsjäger-Brigade – 7th and 9th Mountain Troops (could be translated Alpine, though there is a specific German word for this) Brigades respectively.

There was a deliberate move to intermix units. It was seen as a way to avoid exacerbating racial and ethnic tensions within the armed forces. There was a big worry that non-mixed infantry divisions would support nationalist drives for independence.

Robert

Robert,

Thanks so much. I haven't used my minimal knowledge of German since grad school…definitely rusty!

J

Apologies but the other clue is GAR as well:

Gerbirgs-Artillerie-Regiment – Mountain Artillery Regiment.

Robert

How does the tripartie structure of the Army affect this issue? There was the KuK Army, then the Honved and the Landwehr.

Not the same, but: I'm reading Radetzky's Marches about the 1848-49 campaigns in Italy of that officer.

The convention used is roman numeral/regiment or arabic numeral/regiment.

II/Kinsky is the second battalion of the Kinsky regiment while 2/Kinsky is the second division (pair of companies) of that same regiment. Battalions in 1848 are I, II, III and Landwehr. The zug listed above is a platoon sized unit.

The Austrians broke units up to avoid large formations of one nationality as stated above. I don't know if this affects things, but Conrad tinkered with the mobilization, both before and during, all to bad effect.

I broke my leg back in 1963 and was in a hospital bed next to a 60-something Italian guy. He grew up in Trieste and was drafted into the KuK army, having to learn 50 words of German to follow orders. He was captured in 1916 (I assume during the Brusilov offensive) and taken to St. Petersburg, where he witnessed the Russian Revolution. In time he made his way back to Italy as a labor leader, fled when Mussolini rose to power and ended up in Brooklyn.

KTravlos:

The sense I have is that they mixed the units together. For example, in the AH 5th Armee there was a Honved division and a Landstrum division together with KuK divisions. Quite polygot!

J

vtsaogames – Fascinating story. Our lives are landmarked by seemingly unremarkable people who have in fact had some really remarkable life experiences. I've had a couple of similar such serendipitous encounters in my life. One such person that I regrettably missed out on lived in my neighborhood of Dorchester MA while I was growing up … I learned from his obituary notice that he had been (at least according to the obituary) Rommel's personal chef in North Africa.

You just never know.

B

The grandfather of my friend Onur was in the Ottoman corps sent to Galicia and Romania in WWI. He walked all the way from Galicia to Istanbul in 1919.