Help support TMP


"Questions on Campaigns" Topic


14 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please remember that some of our members are children, and act appropriately.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Game Design Message Board

Back to the 18th Century ImagiNations Message Board

Back to the Campaign Message Board


Areas of Interest

General
18th Century

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Volley & Bayonet


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Workbench Article


Featured Profile Article

Report from OrcCon 2008

Wyatt the Odd Fezian reports from OrcCon 2008.


1,928 hits since 3 Dec 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Ottoathome03 Dec 2016 3:09 p.m. PST

In a multi-player campaign where different players represent different states how many times do you find that.

1. When one player attacks another and prospers and cripples that attacked player somewhat or significantly.

A. The other players come to the aid of the stricken player and in a spirit of "balance of power" gang up on the now superior player and take him down a peg

or

B. The others players attack the stricken player like jackals and attempt to carve out a piece for the3mselves and become the lackeys and lickspittles of the superior power.

2. In games with economic or resource manipulation in it, players will

A. Seek to maximize long term benefit and stable accumulation

or

B. Try and find a loophole that will give them crushing economic power easily translated to immediate military resources, but fail (because there is none) and then lose interest in the game.

3. In the field of diplomacy have you seen players working on the idea of

A.Conceive of diplomacy as the cultivation of a long term accrual of interest and cooperation not to be given up lightly, and working out carefully who will divide what,

or

B. Have no more idea of diplomacy than Hitler in a succession of "You, me, he, and she will sell out the other guy, then "You, me, and he wills ell out she, then "You and me will sell out he, then I will sell you out."

4. Games are crafted with careful attention to supposed national interest and obvious objectives which are clearly spelled out.

A. Which players follow and keep careful track of and pursue assiduously

or

B. They attack other players they don't like regardless of the entirely logical and ordained Victory Conditions.

5. Assume in your game Pat and Mike are two of the players in two of the positions. Pat Attacks Mike and defeats him in a battle. Mike is now under something of a disadvantage.

A. Mike bravely soldiers on and tries to recover his position and plays masterfully

or

B. Mike simply drops out and doesn't play again.


6.You are in a game where individual initiative is allowed. For example, a game where Research and Development and some technological progress is allowed depending on your devotion of resources to it. How many times have you seen players

A. Go with it and attempt to accrue several small advantages by development and improvement of existing technology and growth

or

B. Attempt to make the wonder weapon, like develop the atomic Bomb in World War one.

Finally Assume you are in a game where you are allowed to make up your own Victory Conditions, and these can be whatever your wish, and they do not have to be zero sum, that is they MAY be that you must gain your conditions at the expense of other players, or they MAY be that they can be gained entirely on your own, for example, be a patron of the arts, or want to stockpile money and make Scrooge McDuck's Money bin look like your little brothers piggy bank. Regardless, it involves your putting some large portion of resources available to you up at risk, and serious risk at that. The game would thereby allow for the possibility of more than one "winner" (You build your money bin and I conquer Russia)say.

A. Would you sign up for such a game and make your own victory conditions.

or

B. Not know how to do it and not sign up for a game.

If you chose B

A. would it be that you can't see how you could have a game with multiple winners,

or


B. READ CAREFULLY!!!

In order for YOUR WIN to be valid, you must achieve it at the NOT ONLY at the expense of some one else, but that, that player must feel and have a sense of loss.

Example. You are Prussia, your enemy is Saxony. You take over half of his country, he however chose his victory conditions to be collecting art and being a patron of the humanities. You have half his country, but he has his diamonds, composers, libraries, art galleries, and mistresses, and 357 recognized bastard children.

S

Rudysnelson03 Dec 2016 3:17 p.m. PST

1 One interesting option is too adapt a series of surrender/ conquest results as can be found in Empire in Arms. It not only prevents the defeated from stabbing the conqueror but offers some protection for the defeated by the victor. It will keep crippled players in the game without fear of extermination by other parties. We did this for several campaign systems that we did for Ancients and imagi-napoleonics.

Rudysnelson03 Dec 2016 3:24 p.m. PST

2. We called them eco points in all of our systems. A good foundation of the use for them is essential. Creating new units, replacements, the building of secondary units like naval and air for land campaigns. Another use can be to influence treaties with neutral powers or spying.

Depending on the era, special areas can be designated to raise special units such as elephants in ancients.

Rudysnelson03 Dec 2016 3:30 p.m. PST

3 the idea on diplomacy is tricky. Regardless of national tendacies, some players will rely on personal relationships rather than historical. Or weak players will try to eliminate a known strong player.

Recently I have begone to rely on diplomatic cards to influence what players can and cannot do with other countries. The level of binding treaties is key which is why I mentioned the option listed in 1.

Rudysnelson03 Dec 2016 3:36 p.m. PST

Four and five see one.

Six see the coo ends on eco points. The option can involve R&D and one other which be reflective of technology. That is to invest in the creation of more eco points or at a higher rate. This is a common technique in college simulation for model UN crisis ex.

Dan 05503 Dec 2016 3:52 p.m. PST

Otto, you seem to have a very negative view of your players.

Ottoathome03 Dec 2016 3:58 p.m. PST

Not at all, I've seen both extremes.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Dec 2016 5:19 a.m. PST

The answer to one through six, both A and B parts is "never". Even the young kids we play with have more strategic depth than to be all over in any of the false dichotomies presented.

Unnumbered "Finally …" – A.

Weasel04 Dec 2016 11:11 a.m. PST

This is all based on games played a decade or more ago, when we did play games like this.

1: I've seen both (both in campaigns and in board games).

I'd say 1 is more common, because its often a more rational choice in preventing a player from getting too strong, but both happen for sure.

2: Again both. Sneaking ahead early is tempting but often its the poorer choice.

3: When we've played heavily diplomatic games, everyone has generally acted like a complete crazy person and acted moment to moment :-) We weren't good at those games.

4: Generally, we've stuck closely to victory conditions, with some allowance for roleplaying.

5: It was always understood you stuck it out to the end, possibly trying to become a king maker.

6: Honestly, we never tended to put emphasis on research mechanics even when present.
Probably should though.


For the final question, I'd be all over a game like that, but I must answer in the theoretical, since i have not played.

I imagine my picked victory would be a mix of things I could do myself and some that would create conflict with another player.

Forager04 Dec 2016 12:54 p.m. PST

1."A" if the big kid on the block has a significant advantage, otherwise, "B".

2. "B" first, but failing that "A"

3. Players more adept at diplomacy go for "A", while players less adept at it tend to either go for "B" or forego diplomacy and go solo.

4. Mostly "A", but a lot of players will ignore their national objectives and just do whatever they think is the most fun.

5. Again, mostly "A". Option "B" is mainly for those that feel that winning is everything.

6. Again, assuming the results of successful R&D are somewhat limited, then "A". If it can result in a game changer/breaker some players are going to go with "B", particularly if the campaign isn't going well for them otherwise.

7.(Final) Generally, "A". I don't have a problem with multiple winners, but I would probably prefer to have the options limited to military victory conditions. For me, the purpose of a campaign is to generate tabletop battles. I would not be interested in a campaign someone could "win" by racking up a big treasury or promoting the arts while being soundly defeated militarily.

wminsing05 Dec 2016 9:07 a.m. PST

On the general topic of diplomacy I've come around to the idea that things work best if direct diplomacy is taken out of the hands of the players. This is seen in many of the Two Hour Wargames campaign rules and something that is being built in the Stars at War rules that Ad Astra is working on. In Two Hour Wargames war and peace break out at the whim of the dice; the players simply get carried along on the tide of war. In Stars at War there's a card play mechanic that dictates when players can start a war and allows players to end wars that going badly for them. This takes a lot of the dog-piling and ganging up on the weakest player out of the mix.

-Will

grtbrt06 Dec 2016 2:00 p.m. PST

10: C
Find it odd that in this campaign all players seem to only be at the extreme ends and opposites of opinions/actions.
11: A
Cause me to wonder about the GM if these are the only options/actions in his campaigns .

Ottoathome06 Dec 2016 2:05 p.m. PST

The questions have nothing to do with the present 18th Century Imagination Campaign Gamers. They are from experience in many many other campaigns.

Don't worry Grtbrt, I don't wonder about you. Your hatred of myself is well known and I interpret all your words through that filter. Rest assured, I hate you too!

grtbrt06 Dec 2016 7:14 p.m. PST

Otto ,
I do not hate you -I don't hate anyone (that you have met )
I (and many others ) find some of your comments and "interesting" opinions worth commenting on .
I also find it amusing that you say you Hate me..That says a lot about you.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.