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"Paul Hague : Sea Battles in Miniature" Topic


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735 hits since 3 Dec 2016
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Doomed03 Dec 2016 7:30 a.m. PST

In a fit of nostalgia I was looking to pick up a copy of Paul Hague's Sea Battles in Miniature. However I noticed there is a second book by him called Naval Wargaming: From Ancient Galleys to Modern U-boats,

Does anyone know if they are the same book? Amazon reviews would seem to suggest that the chapter headings are the same.

Thanks

Anthony

Tom Molon Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2016 7:59 a.m. PST

They may or may not be the same. I'm looking at my 1980 Patrick Stephens Ltd copy. The subtitle of "Sea Battles in Miniature" is "A Guide to Naval Wargaming". There's no phrase "Naval Wargaming: From Ancient Galleys to Modern U-boats", so it would seem they're different. But the chapter headings similarities argues they're the same. Perhaps a later edition or subsequent printing with the phrase added? Sorry if this just confuses more…

Doomed03 Dec 2016 8:20 a.m. PST

Looking more closely at the Naval Wargaming: From Ancient Galleys to Modern U-boats review on Amazon it does say it refers to the 1980 version and appears to be the same review that was also posted under SBIM.

At the moment it does appear that Naval Wargaming is a later printing (1992)

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2016 8:37 a.m. PST

They are not the same book – I have both. The earlier one has more on large scale ship to ship games with galleys etc in 15mm or bigger. The later book IIRC is more orientated to modern ships, but does cover the longer timespan as well.

archdukek Inactive Member03 Dec 2016 10:37 a.m. PST

As 20thmaine says they are not the same book and I also have both. There is a bit of overlap in that they both cover what are probably the most common periods for naval wargaming, but the each take a different approach to the subjects.

Bozkashi Jones03 Dec 2016 10:40 a.m. PST

Yep two different books and both well worth getting.

Sea Battles in Miniature (1980) has rules for ancient galleys, fleet actions under sail, ironclads and WW1 fleet actions.

Naval Wargaming (1992) has rules for galleys (using a hex grid), more action under sail, 20th century (more detailed and suited to smaller actions) and U-boats.

I thoroughly recommend both even if gaming has changed these books are full of ideas and some very good explanations. I love them!

Nick

Timotheous03 Dec 2016 11:15 a.m. PST

I have the earlier book, and while I have only played the ironclad rules ("penetrating 'B' armor…") just reading this book warms my wargamer heart.

Prince Alberts Revenge03 Dec 2016 2:03 p.m. PST

Sea Battles in Miniature was my favorite book as a child. I would check it out of the library constantly and made my own ironclads and ancient galleys out of balsa and card using Paul's models as inspiration. When I was an adult I purchased it on Amazon and still look to it for inspiration from time to time. I will have to buy the later book sometime in the near future….

colkitto03 Dec 2016 2:04 p.m. PST

They're both great, but the first one really is one of my all-time favourites. I particularly thought his approach to recreating the Jutland campaign was inspirational, but both books are brimming with enthusiasm, knowledge and inventive creativity. I'd love to know what became of him.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2016 2:57 p.m. PST

I second colkitto's comments. A very enjoyable book.

hornblaeser03 Dec 2016 5:02 p.m. PST

It is a brilliant book.

Bozkashi Jones03 Dec 2016 6:16 p.m. PST

I do wonder what happened to Paul Hague. His work was such an inspiration for naval gamers, like a nautical Charles Grant. There are things in his books that should really be revisited; his action under sail rules feature ships getting out of station and the difficulties of fleet cohesion and signalling orders have to be simple and effective; no 'fine tuning', which makes them far more like being an admiral of a sailing fleet.

There are many things in his books that, even in 2016, seem way ahead of their time.

Above all, he shows a real understanding of how naval combat worked. I have used his rules and here's an old AAR for the Battle of the River Plate:

TMP link

And it even features contributions from the commentators above!

Like Prince Albert's Revenge above, when I stayed with my granddad he would take me to the library and loan 3 books for the week on his card. Sea Battles in Miniature was ALWAYS one of those books, along with Minimum Gauge Railways by the Victorian engineer Arthur Hayward.

And 35 years later it still inspires me. They are books written by an enthusiast and I still go back to them He needs to be better recognised.

Thank you Paul Hague from my long gone teenage self!

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2016 11:47 p.m. PST

I wonder if John Curry has his eyes on these for reprinting?

Doomed04 Dec 2016 12:36 a.m. PST

Thanks for all the replies, looks like I will be ordering two books not one.

Like some of the others I also used to get Sea Battles in Miniature out of the Library on a regular basis.That and Barry Carter's Naval Wargames were my start in Naval Wargaming.

colkitto04 Dec 2016 7:50 a.m. PST

Thanks to Mr Jones I see that I do rather tend to repeat myself! But then anyone who remembers Paul Hague from the first time round must be getting on a bit, I suppose …

Arteis02 Supporting Member of TMP04 Dec 2016 10:40 a.m. PST

I had the Sea Battles book, and as a result built my own balsa-wood ships, which after all these years I still have:

link

picture

picture

Prince Alberts Revenge04 Dec 2016 10:49 a.m. PST

Some beautiful ships there Arteis! I still wish I had my balsa fleets.

Bozkashi Jones04 Dec 2016 12:34 p.m. PST

They are beautiful Arteis!

Now that every ruleset seems to have a tie-in range of miniatures they take me back to a simpler age. I remember making balsa wood WW2 destroyers and cruisers with my dad back in the 1970s. I'd forgotten that memory so I am so pleased to have it back.

I hope you get them onto the table and do an AAR – Heritage Wargaming!

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