"Klingon Science Vessels" Topic

Ok, so the Klingons must have some kind of research ships. They may be a bit aggressive, but disruptor technology and warp drives didn't happen on their own.

Are there any thoughts about what the Klingons might use for this kind of craft? All thoughts are appreciated.

This topic was inspired by TMP link

In Star Fleet Battles, they determined that one shipyard kept producing the D-6 Cruiser when the others upgraded to make the D-7.

The D-6's were eventually used for variants like the Commando Cruiser, PF Tender, Carrier and the Drone Cruiser. I believe they would also be used as test beds for new or improved technologies, such as the Romulan Mauler.

In the SFB world the Klingons had a handful of D6-D7 hulls converted for scientific exploration.

The Klingons have a dedicated science cruiser in the FASA 'trekverse'; the D9 'Seeker' class.

You can find it on Brad Torgersens's site:

ststcsolda.space

It always made sense to me that the Klingons must have at least a few multirole and science-specific vessels. Klingons do science. A species does not achieve faster-than-light travel without the ability to think deeply and abstractly, and encourage the application of that thinking. Empires are not built on blood alone.

On the other hand…

In the rules I'm working on, a ship's scientific capabilities are reflected in an onboard system (basically, in-game perks) called Sensors; a ship cannot engage outside of sensor range, and must make a successful sensor check before an enemy formation can be targeted. Also, a science ship can share tactical data, or attempt to block an inferior sensor platform from scanning.

This goes some way to re-enforcing the superiority of a multirole heavy cruiser like the Constitution class; in battle, she may not have the biggest punch, but she can hit you before you know what's coming.

If you've played Connies in Starfleet: ACTA you'll know the Connies are very much "Mr Joe Average" cruiser, rather than "Kahless save us! We're all dead!" – which I think is a bit mean for the star of the show.

A couple of thoughts; IMT (In My Trek) I always figured the Klingons were always good *engineers* but were not particularly interested in science for it's own sake. So unlike the Federation they don't field dedicated science vessels dedicated to studying stellar phenomena just to increase their knowledge of the universe. But they are excellent at applied sciences, and also very good at reverse engineering and improving on technology. I've always imagined some of their key technologies were developed by their subject races and the Klingons just keep improving it.

That said, as MacrossMartin points out, you gotta do some research to maintain a star-spanning empire, particularly in a universe as full as dangerous stuff as Star Trek postulates. I've always imagined that most Klingon science vessels are cast-off military ships, too out of date to be useful to military actions but still space-worthy enough to carry a research team. Any particularly big and powerful research-oriented vessels (D6/7 refits, the D9) are dedicated to the two primary Klingon 'research' tasks; finding new useful resources deposits and locating new civilizations to conquer….

-Will

About like any other navy, the Klingons would probably first field ship-scale weapons on a starbase or random asteroid for testing in space.

Then they'd either grab a ship that happened to be available for testing in the field )like how the USN used USS Hull (DD945) to test the 8"/55cal Mark 71 Major Caliber Lightweight Gun), or maybe build a whole ship if the systems needed something beyond what a refit could provide (like how the electromagnetic catapults need far more electrical power than the Nimitz-class can provide).

And this is separate from the exploration/EW ships from Star Fleet Battles.

In the SFB world the Klingons had a handful of D6-D7 hulls converted for scientific exploration.

This would be a good idea as it makes it harder to target science vehicles for capture and looting of science discoveries. Maybe the way some Klingon discoveries are made is capturing Federation science ships.

;->=

I always assumed exploration and research was small affairs by 'client' races, monitored and quickly exploited by the military.

Doug

Ok coyote, I know you play Star Trek online so how about this?
link

I thought the Klingons aqcuired Warp Technology from the Romulans (or Vulcans) before turning against them, thus being the reason for the 1st directive.

I thought Klingons had warp before the Romulans.

Certainly, implied in TOS.

Doug

They got it from the "Old Kings" in the fasa fluff. I believe that in one of the TNG or DS9 episodes it was alluded to as well. I don't remember the name of the episode. It seems as though I remember the sword of Khalees in it.

In DS9, they mention the Hur'q. Their name became the Klingon word for 'outsider'.

Old Kings was from the Star Fleet Battles stuff. Not sure if it translated into FASA or not.

TNG and Enterprise contradicted each other.

-in TNG 'First Contact' (not the movie), Picard says a bad first contact scenario with the Klingons led to a lot of problems. This implies the Federation (or Earth) made contact with the Klingons before or as the Klingons developed warp drive.

-in ENTERPRISE, the Klingons were ahead of Earth although the first contact could have been the one that Picard mentioned (it did go badly, more or less).

Ghostrunner is right about the SFB version. They rebelled against the Old Kings and took their technology.That is why the Klingons have security boxes on their SSDs in the booms, so the same thing doesn't happen to them.

Not sure why I was giving credit to fasa. I don't recall it being mentioned in the fasa version.

Sorry for the false report :)

Ghostrunner's right also about the Hur'q. They invaded Quo'nos in the 14th century, and made off with the Sword of Kahless, amongst other goodies.

The suggestion is that they raided rather than conquered the Klingons, but perhaps that was the Empire's 'First Contact'. They could be considered a canon candidate for the 'Old Kings' but I think in SFB, the Old Kings conquered the Klingons, didn't they? Hence the security boxes, as malleman says.

All this from the simple question of what science vessels the Klingons have. Good fun. :)

- Martin

Okay, but what little I can remember of less-than-impressed reading in Prime Directive, Klingon Empire has almost as many races as the UFP, but with Klinks as top of the food chain.

Among the ogryn-like brick devotion to gobbo-like sneaky self-promotion, I thought there were techno 'servitors' that would have fit my previous comment.

Course, the masters have hopefully read about the Tnuctipin…

Doug

One of the great unanswerables of The Next Generation and the Klingon / Federation Alliance – what of the Klingon's subjugated races?

It stands to reason that a long-lived species like the Klingons probably have a relatively slow birth rate. Taking that as given, there is no chance that they, a single species, could reproduce and expand, economically, to compete with a multi-species nation like the Federation; financial osmosis (the weaker economy 'bleeds' into the strong) would mean they would be absorbed into the Federation's economic zone of influence, and political union would likely follow.

That's not portrayed as what happens in Star Trek; the Klingons are a real rival to the Federation for decades, if not centuries. Therefore, they must have the population to exploit the resource base of their Empire, sustaining the economy.

Even if we assume they don't waste resources on frivolities – such as hospitals, old folks homes, and comfy beds – the Klingons (as portrayed in TOS and TNG) would still be at an unendurable disadvantage – the Federation could simply win any war by out-spending their adversary. (The Klingons built four battlecruisers last week? Ask Andor, Tellar, Betazed and the Trills to pick up the pace, so we'll have another ten by Tuesday.)

So, in TNG, we should see the oppressed, conquered servitor races, toiling away at the demands of their Klingon masters. BUT! How would the writers of TNG explain the freedom-loving Federation's alliance with an oppressive, racist, dictatorship?

Ron Moore, I think, knew it couldn't be done in a line or three, and so, we never see nor hear anything about other races or species within the Empire.

In this respect, the SFB version is the more believable, and better thought out; there, the Klingons are indeed the rulers of a multi-species Empire, in which the vast majority serve the needs of the privileged few.

From that comes the possibility that a lot of 'Klingon' tech is, in fact, the stolen product of conquered peoples.

In this respect, the SFB version is the more believable, and better thought out; there, the Klingons are indeed the rulers of a multi-species Empire, in which the vast majority serve the needs of the privileged few.

Or not. A multi-species empire may allow each species to specialize in what they do best. The Klingons could be the species best suited for outer space. Best suited for battle and expanding the Empire. This is the face of the Klingon Empire to the outsider but not the substance.

Like in Planet of Apes the gorilla is better for the military. The other ape species have their expertise. What if in the Klingon empire there is a species best suited for research and development but is rather fragile. Another species could be great at finance or engineering. You would have a vibrant empire unseen by outsiders. But these other groups do not venture far from their home planets. It's a dangerous universe out there. Let the Klingon take the arrows while the others stay safe at home.

AND let them THINK that they are in charge. ;->=

Did imagine that, as well.

Doug

In at least one TNG episode (The Mind's Eye), the Klingons are talking about what to do with one planet they have conquered (Kreos?).

The implication is that they have controlled the planet for some time, and an independence movement is underway.

The Klingon Ambassador remarks that in the past they would have just crushed the resistance. Now they are considering just letting them be independent and 'conquering them again in the future if necessary'.

So, a much more humanitarian empire…

If you've played Connies in Starfleet: ACTA you'll know the Connies are very much "Mr Joe Average" cruiser, rather than "Kahless save us! We're all dead!" – which I think is a bit mean for the star of the show.

That's about the Truth for SFB, too. The Fed Connies are pretty average ships, the yardstick everyone else's cruisers are measured against.

You might want to disregard the FASA fluff, they explained the differences between the Klingon from TOS and the movies and TNG as the TOS Klingons being a Klingon/Human hybrid. With the later Klingons being of Imperial breed.

Although the FASA fluff did say the Klingons did use servants in the engine rooms because of weaker radiation shielding. So this does give some weight to the idea that the Klingons are the face of the Empire.