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"Some Wings of Glory questions" Topic


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636 hits since 25 Nov 2016
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2016 6:36 p.m. PST

I just played some simple games at a convention and was intrigued, but some questions too.

1. Wings of War is an earlier manifestation of Wings of Glory?

2. How is altitude handled with all the advantages and disadvantages. The examples I've seen here don't *seem* to deal with it.

3. How is pilot quality handled, if at all?

4. Can the damage chits used in the WWII version of WoG be used for the WWI version? I find the chits more convenient than the cards.

5. Is speed handled in anyway other than the cards themselves?

Just thinking of investing in some planes.

Personal logo Dances with Clydesdales Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2016 7:25 p.m. PST

1) Correct. Two different companies WoW – Nexus, WoG – Ares. Same planes.

2) There are some simple altitude rules. Firing up a level and down a level have restrictions, and more than 1 level difference no firing.

3) There are simple ace/experience rules, with special capabilities that can be assigned to pilots.

4) I guess so as long as the values are the same.

5) No,
The WWII version has two arrows on the cards, low and high throttle settings, the WWI version has only one setting/arrow.

keithbarker26 Nov 2016 4:15 a.m. PST

3)

When we played our campaign we had three types of pilots: novice, veteran and ace. Novice pilots followed the same rules as for wounded pilots in the standard game. Veteran pilots were as per standard. Ace pilots got Ace skills from the standard rules (the number of skills depending on the number of kills and successful missions achieved in the campaign).

5)

There is a myth that WW1 engines didn't have throttles. This isnt exactly true, but seems to be true for early engines, especially rotary. But it does seem to have been much harder to adjust the speed of WW1 era aircraft when compared with WW2 era. So only handling the speed via the cards seems a good comprimise to me.

You should invest in some planes!! It's a great game, and I think the WW1 game is more fun to play than the WW2 version.

Rabbit 326 Nov 2016 8:57 a.m. PST

4) Not really.
The chits in the WWII version of the game are intended to cover the wide variations in firepower between the various types of aircraft used in that war so you choose chits based on the individual gunnery ratings for each type.

Since in WW1 just about all types on both sides used either single or twin .303 calibre Mg`s (well there were a few oddballs but…) the game uses two card decks (A or B) to cover all the variations, the `C` deck handles ground AA guns and the `D`only used for Le Preiur rockets.

Damage ratings between WWI and WWII aircraft in the game are also not compatable either.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2016 10:43 a.m. PST

Damage ratings between WWI and WWII aircraft in the game are also not compatable either.

Well, I was assuming that one could pick out the chits that match the cards in the appropriate hit numbers including pilot woundings and fires etc. to match each deck. I haven't made a comparison.

So, Rabbit, you're saying that the damage/hit WWII chits and WWI cards aren't compatible in that way?

Damage ratings between WWI and WWII aircraft in the game are also not compatable either.

Well, yeah… Again, I was assuming that the actual percentages of hit cards could be matched with the chits. grin

Timmo uk26 Nov 2016 10:44 a.m. PST

Before you invest too much cash I'd say it's worth thinking about what you want. I love the models but use them for different rules. However, if you want to jump in and hope to buy historical forces then you might be in for a disappointment depending on your budget.

Many of the key types are out of production for example, right now it looks like there may be a two year wait to get the re-released SE5a. They come up on eBay from time to time at very high prices.

Of course you could use 1/144 or 1/300 metal models instead or alternatively if you're not bothered about which planes you have then dive straight it.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2016 10:51 a.m. PST

Timmo:

That is good to know. I had noticed a good number were 'out of stock', but a two year wait?? eBay is getting expensive. I looked at WoG--in stock--and the same plane was several dollars more on eBay…

I've looked over other WWI combat rules such as Canvas Eagles, and they look both far more detailed/chart heavy and more expensive to 'get into.'

Two different companies WoW Nexus, WoG Ares. Same planes.

Different rules?

Personal logo herkybird Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2016 2:11 p.m. PST

There are a few differences in rules between Wings of War and Wings of glory. This was posted on the WofG aerodrome:

Wings of War/Glory the differences----part 3
So now we come to show the actual changes to the old rules:

Manouver Decks.
When the cards for the early war Aircraft were first released the Fokker E.III & Morane were allocated the P Deck & the Halberstadt & DH-2 were allocated the G Deck. Those players who knew their history knew that the latter 2 were more manouverable & faster than the Fokker & there was much discussion on the Forum about this.
Andrea one of the Games designers is most particular to try for historical accuracy & took this on board so when the new series 5 early war minis were released the Fokker & Morane were allocated a new T deck & the Halberstadt & DH-2 allocated the P deck which far better reflects their abilities.
These are the only changes to all the Manouver Decks in existance!

Special Damage Changes
We will cover these in the order they appear in the new RAP Rule Book.

Crew Member Hit
Under the old rules up to Flight of the Giants this Special Damage was ignored for Single seat Aircraft & only affected the Observer/Gunner of 2 Seaters.
In the new rules the Pilot of a Single Seater cannot fire his Machine Gun whilst making a Steep Manouver, Immlemann, Split S or a Climb after taking this damage. In addition if he suffers a Gun Jam he takes 4 manouver cards to clear his gun instead of 3.
If the Pilot takes a second Wound the Pilot is incapacited & his Aircraft is eliminated.

If flying a 2 Seater then you use the rules as listed for Giant Aircraft & draw 2 markers to see which crew member is wounded.

Smoke &/or Fire
There are some interesting changes to these rules.
First if a Smoking Aircraft suffers a second Smoking Damage whilst still Smoking it takes a Fire Damage instead.
An Aircraft on Fire also Smokes.

If an Aircraft suffers a Fire Damage under the new rules the Pilot cannot plan or use any Straight Manouver whilst on Fire. This reflects his efforts to put the fire out & away from himself by constantly turning.
This restriction also means he cannot perform an Immlemann or Split S whilst on Fire.

Altitude
A major change here in that the Basic bottom level is now 1 whereas previously it was 0.
The Pegs are used to represent levels 1 to 4 but if you use the optional Altitude Rules you can add pegs up to the Max Altitude allocated to the plane you are flying.

Overdive
There are some small changes to Overdive which gives advantages to an Overdiving Aircraft including being more difficult to hit & trying to use Overdive to Extingrish a Fire.

Climb Rates & Max Altitude
There are a number of changes to the table for both Climb Rates & Max Altitude to quite a few Aircraft & these are given in full for all Aircraft for which there are Cards or Models on page 14 of the new rule book.

Firing
There is a +1 damage bonus in the first phase of firing for planes firing in its front arc at a plane 1 level of Altitude lower.

Two Seater Crew Damage
As mentioned above if a 2 seater takes a Crew Hit damage you must take 2 crewman hit counters, shuffle them & draw one at random. If a I is drawn the Pilot is hit & apply the normal rule for the Pilot being wounded.
If a II is drawn then the Observer/gunner is wounded & can no longer fire the rear firing M/Gun.

Observers Firing & Immlemann Turns
Some 2 Seaters can perform Immlemanns but cannot fire during the 3 card sequence of making that manouver.
If the observers fires during the preceeding Straight then the Aircraft can not do the Immlemann.

Incendiary Bullets & Balloons.
There is an additional rule now that a Balloon that takes a Special Damage of Smoke, Rudder Jam, Engine Damage or any 5 points of Damage Card from an Aircraft with Incendiary Bullets treats it as a Fire Damage instead.

Ace Skills
Ace Skills were officially added to the rules. They are slightly tweaked from the web version that was released back in 2004.
Well that appears to be the main changes to the previous rules & I firmly believe it is well worth buying the new Rules & Accessories Pack just to have all the various rules available in one easy to access source in the new comprehensive Rule Book.

NKL AeroTom26 Nov 2016 6:07 p.m. PST

You could try the recently released Dogfight!, its a simple but effective WW1 game, that tracks altitude and speed on 6 sided dice on the aircraft's base. Allows for larger battles than Wings of War, including rules for reconnaissance, bombing, zeppelins, and AAA. Pilot quality is also a large factor – with 5 different qualities; poor, below average, average, good and ace.
link

We recommend 1/600 planes because they're so cheap, tumbling dice have a good selection of them:
link
I grabbed 99 of these, for less than $1 USD each.

keithbarker27 Nov 2016 2:41 a.m. PST

Different rules?

The later Wings of Glory rules are basically the same as the original Wings of War rules, but with some enhancements. Later rules included things like multi-engine bombers, barrage balloons, rockets and ack-ack which are really great for a varied campaign.

out of stock
picture

Syytrex A.E.G. G.IV attacked by an Nexus Wings Of War Sopwith Camel. Neither Nexus or Ares have made an AEG GIV.

If planes are 'out of stock' or have never been made you can always go to another manufacturer. I used Red Eagle 1/144 aircraft (used to belong to Skytrex) but it is a popular scale so there are other manufacturers too. IMHO it's the best scale for WW1 because you get good detail and a size that is still playable on a normal wargames table.

Some of my Skytrex stuff that I used when playing Wings Of War/Glory: link

keithbarker27 Nov 2016 2:53 a.m. PST

I find the chits more convenient than the cards.

It would probably be easier to make your own chits for WW1 than to try and re-use the ones from WW2

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member27 Nov 2016 10:23 a.m. PST

As for other rules, our local club uses the free, Canvas Eagles rules for our WWI campaigns and sorties, with the WoW/WoG aircraft, and others.

We use the 3-D Dogfight Flight Stands, which permit more differentiation in height – 9+ levels, and virtually any attitude of banking, diving, or climbing flight to be represented.


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The rules require each player to preplot their next move in writing, using various maneuver codes, and then once everyone is done, all movement and firing is simultaneous.

They work well, and are a lot of fun.

Needless to say, the Flight Stands can also be used for WWII and Modern gaming, and there's a free WWII rules set called Knight's Cross, which is the Canvas Eagles equivalent for that period.


[URL=http://media.photobucket.com/user/Top_Gun_Ace/media/Topgun%20Marketing%20Flight%20Stands/P-51andFWsDogfightCopy.jpg.html]

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Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP27 Nov 2016 10:59 a.m. PST

I appreciate all the information. It is a big help--as well as the rules explanations, Herkybird.

I do like the antenna extensions. I can see that they could be used for any of the rules sets.

Timmo uk27 Nov 2016 11:16 a.m. PST

The rare stuff will sell on eBay at massively inflated prices. The last SE5a in Bishop's Western Front scheme (the most desirable one) that came up for sale in the UK went for about $75 USD.

However, the availability of these models has made a previously 'difficult' period rather easier to get into. Previously there tended to be a lot of model making and that was never really that easy be it in 1/144 metal or 1/72 plastic.

If you don't mind making up kits Valom do an ever increasing range of 1/144 plastic and brass etch kits for WW1 types but they are aimed at the model maker not the wargamer so aren't that easy to make. (I've got 4 SE5s in kit form to get rid off.)

Had Victrix done 1/144 plastic kits of WW1 planes aimed squarely at the wargamer rather than the 1/100 WW2 types they made I think they may have had a huge success on their hands.

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member27 Nov 2016 9:54 p.m. PST

The Canvas Eagles and Knight's Cross rules can be found on their respective Yahoo Groups, along with the maneuver templates for each aircraft type.

IIRC, I think the CE rules are on the Eagles Max Yahoo Group.

They're a lot of fun, though take a little work to get shots on wily opponents, making it that much more satisfying when they go down in flames.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP09 Dec 2016 6:19 p.m. PST

I have one question on the Wings of Glory rules about altitude.

It states that no WWI airplane can be higher than Altitude 4 [page 15] And climb rates are based on the number of climb counters needed to go up one level.

However, on page 14, a Nieuport 16 has a climb rate of 2 and a maximum altitude of 12 for example, or the Fokker D. VII has a climb rate of 2 and an altitude of 15.

I am not following this at all. If climb rate from one altitude to the next requires only 2 climb counters for those two planes, then what does the 12 and 15 represent if there are only 4 altitude levels?? Even their climb rates multiplied by 4 levels does not add up to the altitude level maximum.

I can't find anything to explain it.

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