"Team Yankee Garages" Topic

OK
So what is this?
I have always had an issue with rules that cannot address terrain. In this case, can you drive your AFV through the garage, I mean, oh come on, it is only a garage, not a high rise nor house. And can you shoot through thegarage?

This question also applies to the fast food restaurant.

Being a former tanker I would strongly advise against driving an AFV through any type of building, especially with modern ones with sensors and other delicate stuff. Whatever you gain from position could be easily lost by making your vehicle combat ineffective! Crud crashing down on a M1s wind sensor or "doghouse" (the tank gunner's sight) would be bad… very, very, bad.

I shudder to think how hitting a building head-on with the main gun over the bow would mess the thing up. Knocking off your bore sight could be the least of your problems

And don't get me started on the possibility of the darn thing having a basement….

"And don't get me started on the possibility of the darn thing having a basement"

The C/O (and his Tank) of a 3 Div Cavalry Regiment (Cannot remember which one) ended up in the wine cellar underneath a German farm courtyard, think it was Ex Summer Sails 1986!

Tally Ho!

First off it is garage, a light structure, not even a house nor bigh rise.
Second, WW2 AFV are not so delicate as are modern AFV, and many light structures present few problems to modern AFV
And while all structures as well as forests and otger terrain can be mined, FoW and TY are lacking in such rules. Mines are a large hazard, but demining is not glamorous, while necessary
And funny that your unit commanders balk at driving into buildings as it seems thar it is ok to drive through forests, wejj, that is the presentation in FoW and TY

And as for cellars, why are not bridges and roads rated for load and wear in TY or FoW. A 10 ton APC is not the same as a 50 ton AFV
So the cellar argument is also a smokescreen to mask some inconvidnient items in this so called simulation debate.

You guys sound like you enjoy very complicated rules.

Don't get me started on the lack of torque wrench calibration in Flames of War!

"Can you shoot through the garage" well I was always taught you need to see something to aim at it. So I assume that since most people can not see through it the walls they would not shoot.

As for your point about WW2 tanks being tougher than modern, well the garages are designed for TY which is modern not relevant.

Metric or standard foot pounds calibration?

Could it be that they are just ….. scenery?

Just in passing, I WAS one of those 1980's Cold Warriors, and there was serious debate about whether modern buildings provided the cover for infantry or the obstacle tor armor that people planned on based on WWII experience. But to my knowledge, no one ever drove a tank battalion through a town shooting up infantry to test matters. Perhaps subsequent experience in the Middle East is pertinent?

And Fanatic, if you drive your tank through the fast foodery, I can guarantee that your order will be delayed. Sending the Special Weapons Officer to the bakery and conditorei usually worked for us.

Not that it is the height of training on display, but there are numerous videos of T-72s in Aleppo engaged in modern urban AFV/Tank combat.

From watching those, they stay well away from buildings, either in, or trying to somehow shoot through or drive through. Of course they also just tend to move to the open and park them, and use them like a bunker.

Of course the other thing they have on display is a lack of infantry support, and the tendency to brew up over-frequently from Carl Gustavs and the like.

It's a game where buildings get smaller as you get closer – I wouldn't worry about details.

I wonder if the OP has ever played Flames of War. My guess is No.

I do not play Flames of War, and I thought his remark silly. Perhaps the big boys are making him play FOW and he is upset about it.

If they resemble some of the garages I had out there in Germany my Austin Maxi 1750HL would knock one of them down!

Quite a few instances of drivers or runaway packs causing a 432 or Chieftain to dent a garage wall on the tank park. It the tank hit barrel first the it would need maintenance to ensure it still worked!

Tally ho!

Nick do you remember what a US Army GOER was? During REFORGER one year I drove up on a German village where some DATS were trying to toew 1 GOER with another, but they bounced so much it lost the tow, and crashed into a house, as the family was sitting at Breakfast. The woman of the house was screamingly furious, and looked like she was ready to start throwing rocks at the 2 drivers. I drove for the S-3 and he spoke german, and got her calmed down until the manuver damage people get there. Cant really say I blamed her, sure would have pissed me off.

For you fans of TY, FOW, there is history of AFV in cities fighting in buildings especially light structures.
Funny that in TY, FOW and most other games that not only are all buildins treated as heavy structures, as if they were all made of stone or concrete, but even heavy artillery cannot damage or destroy them, even the foxholes remain after a heavy barrage, including forests. Everything is not Tarawa. So, setting buildings or forests afire isnt in the rules, using artillery or tanks to clear buildings or forests of unseen enemy isnt in the rules, indeed, having played TY I havent seen any damage done to buildings or forests or bridges.

But why bother, if it is onlh a game?
yet the amount of discussion over correct colors to historical TO&E means that it is t just a game

Since as you mention most rules, or as you say games. seem to group class buildings as heavy cover what rules do you use? How many different classes of cover are there? How do they handle the fact that a building on the table represents several in real life?

As I said before do not play either FOW or TY so if you know of accurate, simple to play, fast, fun set of rules tell us.