"US Marine Corps Birthday" Topic

Today is the 241st Birthday of the US Marines, which began as the Continental Marines on 10 November 1775 at Tun's Tavern in Philadelphia.

The Marine Corps is the only military organization that I know of that was formed in a bar.

Brechtel,

I don't know if your nom de guerre has any ancestral significance to you or not. However, I thought I would pass on that I saw that surname last weekend on a list of the pioneer settlers of Frenchtown, a former community of French-Canadians located a few miles west of Walla Walla, Washington. Retired employees of the Hudson's Bay Company began settling the area in the 1820's. The site is no longer occupied, but there are still some descendants of the original families residing in the general area.

Many happy returns to the USMC!

The USMC action that most impresses me is that of the pilots who took off from Midway Island on June 4 1942 to do near-suicidal battle with Zeroes…in Buffaloes. The deficiencies of that type were well known by then but they took off and took it to the enemy in the second-worst* fighter aircraft deployed by either side in WW2.

The corps seems to have had to make do with the army and navy's hand-me-down equipment, yet got stuck in like Flynn regardless.

Props, as the young people say.

* the Blackburn Roc, obviously

Very interesting information on the surname of Brechtel.

I chose it, however, because of a French artillery company commander at the Crossing of the Berezina in November 1812. He had a wooden leg, and during the artillery prep for the crossing, it was taken off by a Russian artillery round. He remained standing, holding onto a vehicle wheel, continued giving his fire orders to his gun company, and told one of the gunners to fetch the spare from the supply wagon.

The story is in Rapp's memoirs. Men of bronze indeed.

Not just Buffalo's them guys also took off in Vindicators.

Now don't get me wrong there may be more deadly forces but when US Marines are deployed it usually means the USA is getting serious and the bad guys should rethink their life choices.

Worst fighter of WWII?

Boeing P26 'Peashooter' gets my vote.

* the Blackburn Roc, obviously

No (dis)honourable mention for the Boulton Paul Defiant?

Anyway, a happy birthday to the USMC.

I always liked the Defiant. It was a handsome aircraft, along the lines of the Hawker Hurricane. Too bad it didn't work out.

Hoorah.

The P26 was honourably obsolete so it gets a bye. The Buffalo was purportedly a modern fighter but was hopeless without extensive field mods and under very specific and favourable circumstances.

The Roc and the Defiant were the same idea but the former was ludicrously slow. A Roc with its turret trained forward was once famously unable to gain on a fleeing Heinkel. To do so it had to train the turret aft, which meant in did gain, but was now unable to shoot. So although both were death traps for the gunner at least, the Roc wins out as worse because it was wholly ineffective in its role whereas the Defiant was merely very poor. There was no role for which the Roc was suitable whereas the Defiant was able to be repurposed as a night fighter.

Semper Fi

No bye from me for the P26.

It may have been honourably obsolete in the USAAF, but it was a World War: the P26 was still in front line service with the Phillipines and Chinese air forces.

The Roc was pitiful. Never understood why the Brits clung to the turreted fighter concept for so long.

I always liked the Defiant. It was a handsome aircraft, along the lines of the Hawker Hurricane. Too bad it didn't work out.

At the risk of de-railing the thread, the Germans lost a few fighters in early clashes with the Defiant precisely because it was often mistaken for a Hurricane, so they attacked from behind. It took them a while to find there were no forward-firing guns, and that attacking head-on was the answer.

Never understood why the Brits clung to the turreted fighter concept for so long.

Up to the early 1930s, bombers were considered to be a lot faster than fighters (hence "the bombers will always get through" mantra), so it was never anticipated that defensive aircraft such as the Roc or the Defiant would ever face other fighters. In terms of engaging bombers, they were quite effective (much like the "Jazz Music" ME110s later in the war), and could even defend themselves against ME109s by forming a circle and gradually dropping in height to force the enemy to attack from level, or from above.

AIUI the Bristol Fighter was the culprit. It was so successful the RAF didn't want to abandon the idea, although it was successful chiefly when the pilot did most of the shooting, with the rear gunner tasked with providing an unpleasant surprise for anyone who got on its tail. When the rear gunner was left to do most of the shooting they did badly. IIRC Leefe Robinson of shooting-down-a-Schutte-Lanz fame was killed that way.

They have an airworthy one at Shuttleworth and it looks very rugged and impressive in flight.