Tango01  | 08 Nov 2016 11:51 a.m. PST |
… reconnaissance armoured. "During a live demonstration of the French army, Thursday, October 20, 2016, a scale model 1/1 of the new generation of 6x6 reconnaissance armoured vehicle Jaguar EBRC (Engin Blindé Multi-Rôles – Armoured Multi-roles Vehicles) was unveiled, it should enter in service with the French armed forces in 2020 to replace old ERC-90 Sagaie, AMX-10Rc and VAB HOT…."
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Armand |
| JMcCarroll | 08 Nov 2016 1:59 p.m. PST |
Do they all come with training wheels ? |
| javelin98 | 08 Nov 2016 2:52 p.m. PST |
Hah! Nice one, JMcCarroll! |
| M1911Colt | 08 Nov 2016 5:01 p.m. PST |
I really hate the current trend of big, tall, slab sided armored vehicles. It feels like everyone forgot why angled armor is advantageous. Not to mention the numerous bullet traps all over it. It semms engineers fail to remember all the lessons learned in WWII. Are they going to bring back the Char 2C next? |
| Mako11 | 09 Nov 2016 2:15 a.m. PST |
Man, that is one butt ugly vehicle. |
| kabrank | 09 Nov 2016 2:38 a.m. PST |
M1911Colt Modern composite armors do not need the slopes of WWII steel armors and the layouts are supposed to take into account projectile traps. However sloped just looks so much better! |
| Bellbottom | 09 Nov 2016 2:49 a.m. PST |
House on wheels! A figure beside it for scale would be nice. |
| Royston Papworth | 09 Nov 2016 8:07 a.m. PST |
dunno about armour, I think they just make them out of Lego these days… |
| M1911Colt | 09 Nov 2016 9:37 a.m. PST |
kabrank
I don't really buy the modern composite does not need slope. But I suppose I don't have any info to really back up that statement. But yes sloped does look better :-)
I disagree with the layout resolving projectile traps. Look at the sloped hull structure that the turret over hangs. That's a trap if I've ever seen one. Might as well advertise shoot here to disable. The front wheel well looks pretty suspect as well. But again, I'm not an engineer. So what do I know. |
| Tango01 | 09 Nov 2016 10:07 a.m. PST |
Ugly indeed!. (smile)
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Armand
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| Lion in the Stars | 09 Nov 2016 10:13 a.m. PST |
It's not that modern armor makes slope irrelevant, it's modern AMMO. Remember that beautiful S-Tank, with the 80-degree sloped glacis plate? 1992-vintage Russian 125mm APFSDS will do a through-and-through from the front unless it hits the engine block. |
| M1911Colt | 09 Nov 2016 2:44 p.m. PST |
While I don't disagree that modern ammo is heaps better than the old school AP. I think its an unfair comparison of 1992 APFSDS ammo vs a tank with 70mm (At its thickest) steel armor that was designed in the 1950's. Of course it's going to spear it hard. Then again I'm probably over thinking it all. The EBRC is just STANAG 4. So anything 30mm or bigger is gonna chew it up like a grizzly shredding a slimjim. |
| Deadles | 13 Nov 2016 2:18 p.m. PST |
Basically it's fine for colonial style warfare against low tech insurgents. This makes sense given France's heavy involvement in Africa. The thing would be a death trap in anything more complicated (in the Middle East RPG-29, TOW, Kornet and Milan are all common place amongst insurgents). |
| Charlie 12 | 13 Nov 2016 4:43 p.m. PST |
Maybe, maybe not. Not knowing the armor composition, survivability can only be speculated. Besides, this type of vehicle is not suppose to go head to head with heavy forces. And, if you're doing combined arms right (which the French do), those ATGMs will be dead before they can make an impact. So anything 30mm or bigger is gonna chew it up like a grizzly shredding a slimjim. Maybe, and the 40mm on the EBRC will do likewise to whoever fired at it. And if its any of the current vehicles, it WILL shred it. |
| Deadles | 13 Nov 2016 5:34 p.m. PST |
And, if you're doing combined arms right (which the French do),
French do combined arms very well but it's very much aligned with colonial style "expeditionary warfare." Conventional capability is less known.
I've knicked following points out of a RAND study:
rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR770.html •The French use relatively lightly armored wheeled vehicles, which have smaller sustainment requirements compared with heavier, tracked vehicles. •The French prefer mobility over protection, a choice that reflects their cultural and doctrinal emphasis on maneuver. •The French Army draws on an expeditionary culture, which reportedly makes coping with austerity a point of pride and also reinforces certain approaches toward operating among local populations. •Serval does not shed light on France's capacity to handle more-intense conventional conflicts or provide conventional deterrent power. •The French are confident that their success on the battlefield and low casualty rate demonstrate the proficiency of their military, but they took large risks.
Furthermore the French have displayed immense incompetence as recently as 2008 when a mechanised platoon was pretty much wiped out in a Taliban ambush.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbin_Valley_ambush The opponents in Mali displayed extremely poor tactical knowledge for the most part and lacked advanced weapons. Also a lot of the fighting was handled by African allies who also suffered most of the casualties and who similarly are lacking in advanced tactics and weapons. (Basically French in Mali were there to corset the Africans ala German units supporting Italian ones). |
gets his hands on some fields and fences.
