"Napoleonics with two bases per unit" Topic

Anyone know of Napoleonic rules where a unit is two bases?
I would describe this as akin to Snappy Nappy or think of Volley and Bayonet with two bases instead of one. I am thinking of brigade size bases here but with the advantage of a column or line. Thanks.

I believe Snappy Nappy uses 2 bases per unit.

I think (Denis?) Knight did, too--side by side for line, one behind the other for column, side by side facing in opposite directions for road column, and back to back for squares. Anyway, I remember that system and I think it was Knight.

Why would you want to represent it when a brigade would possibly form multiple formations?

Fate of Battle, by Buck Surdu, part of his Look Sarge, No Charts rules. You can usually get a chance to try the rule out at any of the conventions in the Eastern half of the US when he and his HAWKS group attend. I find them not too difficult to pick up while playing and produce a decent result.

The original edition of Napoleonic Command by Jeff Knudsen did so, and it is included as an option in the second edition. March Attack by Crusader Games also recommends this basing. Both rules were set at the battalion level (i.e. 2 bases per battalion). It's a very practical basing method, especially for somewhat larger scaled or abstracted games, as you can easily and quickly represent all essential formations.

I also play Volley & Bayonet at (essentially) 2 bases per unit, as I play with 2 linear stands instead of 1 massed stand roughly representing a brigade (1500 per base). This allows me the choice of deploying the troops in a single or supported line – again, an easy and flexible basing system.

Cheers,

Christopher

More info on Buck Surdu's Fate of Battle:

link

Major Mike, thanks for the kind words.

vonLoudon, in Fate of Battle, a battalion is represented by two bases so that the battalion can be configured into a column, line, or square. The information you need to play the game is on small base labels on the backs of the bases and one some special six-sided dice. The base labels can be replaced with a simple roster if you don't like the labels.

I find that depending on how many players, you can usually play 3-4 turns an hour once people understand the rules. In a four-hour convention game, we usually get in 10 turns and the rules explanation.

To toot my own horn a bit, we have guys in our club who won't play Napoleonic, but they play Fate of Battle.

The rules are supported by a Yahoo group where you can ask questions. The group also has a lot of files and useful downloads.

Buck Surdu

P.S. They aren't "my" rules. Dave Wood and Chris Palmer were my co-authors.

Ebb and Flow of Battle did this as well

March Attack, published by Crusader Publishing also uses 2 bases per unit.

Definitely Snappy Nappy – 2 bases per unit for Infantry and Cavalry, 1 base for artillery.

Shako will work with 2 bases per unit. It's not really fussy ab out how many bases there are in a unit, so long as you can show column, line & square. It also works fine with 3,4,5 or 6 bases per unit.

I just use Volley and Bayonet with two bases for a brigade – cut down on markers and I think it looks better…

If you wish to represent a Napoleonic Brigade as the basic manoeuvre unit, why bother with 2 bases ? why not just 1 base, its much easier and straight forward.

I have played Shako II with two base battalions and it worked well. I use three bases per battalion which gives a better column vs. line proportion but does make squares too large…but then most basing options do.

@True Grit: because brigades usually (or at least as often) fought in a single line, while a single brigade base assumes they fought in a double line. Using two bases allows you to represent both options – an important point and easy to model.

link

If the will is there, you can use teo bases for several rule sets

Thanks all. 2 bases for different formations. 1 base can be okay for V+B and Grande Armee. But if you have seen Balagan's bases with multiple figures more in formation, it looks pretty cool.

And just out of curiousity, HAWKS, where did you get the idea of two bases. I got my idea from V+B alternate scale, Snappy Nappy, Will McNally AWI rules, and Steve's Balagan site. Also Dots of Paint is a homegrown system with ten 28mm figures per stand. The stands measure 120cm wide and depth is 40mm or 60mm I believe. These would be stands of 1,000 to 2,000 men and about 700 horse. Arty bases could be 80mmX80mm. Fewer figures approximating larger actions. Visually, 15mm seems ideal for this, but I don't do 15mm or 6mm either. Just me. I like larger figures.

I don't know that we got the idea anywhere in particular. The other sets of rules in the Look, Sarge, No Charts family used a single base to represent a unit. There are no formations in the WWII and ACW rules. For Napoleonic wars we felt that representation of formation was important. The design methodology for LSNC (and Combat Patrol for that matter) is to seek to eliminate all but the most essential and important factors, modifiers, etc. and let the dice deal with the other variances. I think designers too frequently succumb to the siren call of trying to represent everything they ever read about a period with a long list of modifiers, factors, and special cases. …So, to represent column, line, and square, the minimum number of bases needed is two.

I'm a big fan of big bases. I now use them for everything pre-1900. They look good, they reduce the number of playing pieces in the game, but give a massed effect. All good from my perspective.
Balagan's Big Bases

As steamingdave47 pointed out, I believe you can use any rules with big bases, if you are creative enough. Of course, having a set of rules designed for them is even better.

I very much agree with surdu2005 that "designers too frequently succumb to the siren call of trying to represent everything they ever read about a period". Many designers seem to confuse detail with simulation. I find a greater level of detail reduces the level of simulation rather than enhancing it. For example, a brigade level game should not care what formation the battalions have adopted (line, column, square, whatever), and should concentrate on the status of the brigade. That is one reason I like V&B.

It was the Peninsular ware that really decided me on big bases. I wanted to be able to refight large battles with units as brigades and small battles with units as battalions (or smaller). Two big bases gives me that.
Big Bases for the Peninsular War

But I've been toying with two bases for units for a long time. Starting with small bases for my rules Twilight of the Sun King.