"HistoriCon 2018 in NJ" Topic

Saw this on the club board
Clif
Somerset looks like a great venue
Clif

Im posting this here as well, I'm about to depart for FI and will not be monitoring TMP while I'm there. So I wont be responding till I get back.

As you may know, Todd Kauderer has resigned from the Board due to health reasons. All of us wish him well for a speedy recovery. To fill the vacant seat, the Board has elected Tom Uhl as his successor to finish out the term. Tom brings extensive experience with convention planning and will take his seat on the Board at Fall In. We look forward to working with him.

Future Conventions:
As previously reported at the Historicon 2016 Membership Meeting, the Board is looking at sites for all three of our 2018 conventions (Cold Wars, Historicon, and Fall-In!). While all three have signed contracts for 2017, this is not the case for 2018. On August 20, 2016 the Board met at the Lancaster Host to further discuss the situation for convention locations in 2018.

We have been evaluating 2018 contract offers from both the Fredericksburg Convention Center in Virginia and the Garden State Exhibit Center/Doubletree Hotel in Somerset, New Jersey (hereafter "Somerset") for Historicon 2018. These are the only two venues that have offered HMGS an executable cost feasible contract for any of the 2018 conventions. The Lancaster Host's new management has declined to offer us any 2018 contracts at this time, and are not expected to do so until after the results of Fall-In 2016 are reviewed.

Accordingly, the Board drafted a Request for Proposal ("RFP") for all of our 2018 conventions. The RFP was sent out in early September to 11 convention and visitor bureaus and 8 national hotel chains.

While the responses from the RFP were still outstanding and not expected back until October, we were informed on September 16, 2016 by the Doubletree Hotel in Somerset that another group wanted to book the dates we had previously reserved for Historicon 2018. The hotel management gave us a 10 day period as a courtesy to make a decision to sign a contract and send a non-refundable $5,000 USD USD deposit which would be applied towards the hotel bill.

The Board met by teleconference on September 18, 2016 to discuss this development. In order to keep this location option open while we still waited for any other responses from the RFP, the Board authorized the President and Treasurer to sign the Somerset Hotel Historicon 2018 contract and make the deposit to hold the dates.

As of today, the deadline for responses to the RFP has past and there have been no proposals for Historicon 2018. While we received responses from everyone, only 7 were of a useful nature for Cold Wars and Fall-In!, which asked follow-up questions, but nothing beyond that.

The RFP, the addressees and the signed hotel contract are posted to YM in the membership section under HMGS 2016 Board of Directors Minutes.

Kevin Kelley for BOD HMGS

Well, this will make people from the North East really happy.

Very convenient.

So the board gave a non-refundable 5k deposit to hold dates w/o being close to a decision?
Don't think I would have made that decision.

Grimm

> So the board gave a non-refundable 5k deposit to hold dates w/o being close to a decision?

To the only site that bothered to respond to keep the option open. Very reasonable decision actually.

Wonder if any kickbacks were involved ?

Wonder if any kickbacks were involved ?

Wow.

Looks like about 9-10 hours from here. Too far to drive, not near any major airports.

Guess we'll see.

Although I should point out that from all the noise about the move to Fredburg, I was expecting Hcon to be in Maine, or possibly Iceland when it moved again.

Not near any major airports? It's 30 minutes from Newark!

Remind me again what airport Lancaster is close to?

It's 30 minutes from Newark airport. That's about as major as they get. Closer than either Lancaster or Fredericksburg were to airports. There may be shuttle services given the clustering of nearby hotels.

The most interesting thing about this is the lack of responses.

Give it time. We've already had implications of bribery.

> Remind me again what airport Lancaster is close to?

Does a field where a cropduster lands count?

Let the games begin!

Dynaman8789

That is not true what you have said. Both Fredericksburg and Somerset were under review. Both had provided viable responses to the board.

It was just other places had not responded. So based upon this news Fredericksburg is not going to be chosen. (Or would seem unlikely…)

Not having been south of Newark in quite awhile, from mapquest it looked like a lot farther than 30 minutes, but I bow to your knowledge. How much would a cab ride cost? I would hate to rent a car for four days just for that distance, but its a possibility.

On the good side, there are a lot of hotels all over that area.

And yes, one of the reasons I dislike Lancaster is the distance to airports.

OK – so two open places. Not a major difference. I don't know the numbers for actually renting the places but 5K is most likely a tenth or less of it so it makes sense to put up the deposit to keep the option open.

And paying to keep the option open does not mean that place will be picked.

So my guess is that Hcon lost attendance again this year at the FCC. The rumor has it that attendance was down about 10% from last year (which was done from the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that…).

In short, staying at the FCC is a slow death sentence for Hcon as it keeps losing attendees. Note the BOD never did release the attendance numbers. My guess is if the numbers were up they would have announced it.

I don't know if NJ is the answer, but it is clear something has to be done before the once flagship convention slips under the waves.

Well attendance will be down in NJ by at least 5, as my friends and I are sure as heck not driving up to NJ from VA in 2018.

Count me out as well HUB..the "we want the Host crowd" got what they wanted.

Make that 10 HUB, we won't be there either. Schmuks, well you finally killed it. Hope you Host people are happy. See ya never…

No desire to go to NJ, so I will probably skip at that point. But I'm only one guy, so I can't say if this is a good decision or bad one.

Rather funny to see the naysayers from Virginia and North Carolina area. No different driving from Virginia to NJ than someone from NJ driving to Virginia for a convention. Just a different group,of people having to do it.

Most importantly, it doesn't seem to be set in stone yet. Remember Baltimore?

I have always said that to me the conventions need to be spread out "around the east." I would leave Historicon in the NJ/PA area, move Cold Wars south to Virginia or North Carolina, and move Fall In either to more west of Gettysburg PA or north into New York State.

That way, in general, everyone has something close.

Pvi,

Good point. I wonder if anyone whining about driving to nj were on here calling those who didn't want to drive to VA babies. What's a debate without a healthy dose of hypocrisy?

> Most importantly, it doesn't seem to be set in stone yet.

It's not even written on the back side of a napkin yet.

civildisobedience, We drove from VA to the Host for about15 years straight. NEVER complained. You people have been bitching EVERY year, ALL the time, because ONE of the 3 major Con's left your back yard. My God, did you not read TMP for the last 4 years at all. I've NEVER seen so much crying, bitchin, screaming and generally acting like a bunch of 2 year olds who's sucker was ripped from your toothless mouth. No hypocrisy here. So before ya'll start spewing out crap that you obviously have no clue about, you might wanna look in the mirror, damn it. Grow up. And enjoy your 3 Cons, 20 mins from your house. I'll go to Southern Front.
pvi99th- that would be nice but then they would want Fall in or Cold Wars back too, for some reason or another.

On the plus side, there's a Wegman's about 15 minutes from the New Jersey site. There is also a NJ Transit train station at Bound Brook, about two miles from the venue.
Although I'm only about an hour from the NJ site, I really have no preference as I've gone to all the H-Cons in Fredericksburg and will continue to attend the show as long as it's somewhere between Vermont and South Carolina.

I don't have any sort of four-legged mammal in this fight, but I am curious: what is the reason to leave Fredericksburg now?

Is it because of the falling attendance figures? Or are the facility fees going up? Or have dealers dropped off…?

So the board gave a non-refundable 5k deposit to hold dates w/o being close to a decision?

No. No. 5K of other peoples money. Money they were entrusted to do reasonable things with.

What they apparently did: Drop 5K down for a site that they'd not visited yet 2 years in advance because the people they were dealing with gave them the pressure pitch. You know. "Other people are looking so I cannot guarantee you will have a spot for long. Tell you what? I'll give you 10 days to decide." Hmmmmm. Rather foolish.

Ceterman wrote – "We drove from VA to the Host for about15 years straight. NEVER complained."

So …… where exactly in Virginia do you live? I drove from Boston MA down to Lancaster PA for about as many years. At 6 hours drive time, I am guessing that is probably respectably further than your drive; I never complained either.

I live in Greenville SC now. My drive from Greenville to Somerset NJ will be just about exactly as long as my drive has been from Boston to Fredericksburg VA.

Frankly, if my name were Solomon and I were King of HMGS, Cold Wars would be in VA.

B

"No. No. 5K of other peoples money. Money they were entrusted to do reasonable things with."

….. Maybe we should bring Pete Panzeri back to sort this all out.

B

Rather funny to see the naysayers from Virginia and North Carolina area. No different driving from Virginia to NJ than someone from NJ driving to Virginia for a convention. Just a different group,of people having to do it.

The difference is my convenience is more important to me than your convenience is.

After hearing about how much fun everyone was having for years up in PA, the show finally comes down here. Us local VA folks go for a few years, have a blast, and now it's gone. Not going to pitch a fit about it, just not going to drive up to NJ, end of story.

"What they apparently did: Drop 5K down for a site that they'd not visited yet 2 years in advance because the people they were dealing with gave them the pressure pitch"

There were site audits done for all of the potential locations (including Somerset) and reported during the membership meeting. I suspect the cost differential more than made up for the deposit.

TRU

The NJ site was also the only site to respond even after deadline.
:2017 cons alre all at current planned locations
The change is 2018 as I read it.
So first Con in Somerset( if that is it) will be Cold Wars 2018

The almost 20 years I have been flying in from Wesr Coast, this is best location for arriving. Not sure what the venue facility is like.
Clif

Just for the record, some of us NC folks drove to NJ
before there was a H'con.

Fond memories NOT of a couple cons (Glassboro St.
Teacher's College [yes, THAT'S how long ago it was!]
and Cherry Hill [NB – Bob Giglio, I did NOT set the
hotel on fire !])

So my guess is that Hcon lost attendance again this year at the FCC. The rumor has it that attendance was down about 10% from last year (which was done from the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that…).

In short, staying at the FCC is a slow death sentence for Hcon as it keeps losing attendees. Note the BOD never did release the attendance numbers. My guess is if the numbers were up they would have announced it.

Tell you what. You guys in VA, S.C., etc. keep it at FCC. By the time it's run into the ground you'll be dead/too old to go anyway. Who cares, right? It won't afffect you.

I am thinking that the 2017 Historicon will be my last one. My friends and I have been considering other conventions in 2018 such as Origins or Guns of August. Why is it folks from Jersey have all but taken over Wilmington, but can't drive to Fredericksburg for the weekend?

Amusing to read the discussion on distances for travel to HCon etc. From Lancaster to the named new site in Somerset is about 130 miles. From Lancaster to Fredericksburg about 175 miles.
Out here in California… that is the warm up distance for most trips. From Los Angles to Nevada border… 225 miles. To San Fran you are near 400 miles. Many commute 100 to 150 miles every day (combined both ways) for drive just to work… five times a week. The joke of Los Angeles drivers…. you drive the I405 freeway in rush hour. Its four hours to drive one way…. then five hours back… and you haven't left Los Angeles county either way.

As of right now, only two places are even willing to consider us. Our combination need of rooms, space and parking along with food options combined with a desire for bargain basement pricing does not make us the pick of most litters.

The Host may or may not want us back and they may or may not want us at a price we like.

The BOD is hardly an evil cabal plotting regional bias, dastardly hidden personal enrichment or simply conspiring to destroy gaming as we know it and to suggest anything vaguely related is silly at best, childishly sullen more likely.

Our choices are all trade offs and many an ox will get gored be it cost, convenience or comfort but let's make the best of whatever it turns out to be and try not to snipe at folks who are simply elected (by us) volunteers doing a job the more sensible of us would avoid under almost any circumstance as the rewards are hours of effort capped off by recriminations, insults and innuendo.

I gotta sit back with the popcorn and watch this. What happened to the cries of "We gotta support the hobby"??

Unfortunately FB keeps dropping in attendance – despite the best efforts of the BoD.

For the people that did their best to support and grow Historicon, my hat is off to you. I'm sure there are allot of people that put forth allot of effort. At the end of the day, you can't have a flagship convention that continues to lose attendees.

@Tmpwargammerrabbit – I always thought the 405 meant you were moving either 4 or 5 miles an hour.

The BOD is hardly an evil cabal plotting regional bias, dastardly hidden personal enrichment or simply conspiring to destroy gaming as we know it

I don't recall anyone saying the BOD was conspiring to destroy gaming.

I understand the members of the HMGS BOD are truly in a "no win" situation over moving Historicon once again! It really is what it is, and everyone will have to evaluate their own particular circumstance.

For those like myself who live South of Richmond, VA there are only two ways to get to NJ from anywhere. One is the I 95 corridor, and having to drive around the 3 largest metropolitan areas on the East Coast to wit: Washington D. C., Baltimore, and Philadelphia. Option 2, Is to drive into Virginia Beach take the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel then up the DELMARVA peninsula. A more expensive way due to the tolls and Speed Traps along the way if you're not aware of them! To be straight up honest, in the summer time neither of those two options provides an easy drive unless you make the journey at night.

For me, I stopped feeling the need to drive 7 to 8 hours to go to a convention a number of years ago. I believe I will stick with that feeling! I hope there are enough folks living in the North East to keep the shows viable. Best of luck to you in your endeavor! I'd rather spend my time playing a game or two at home.

I bet Millercop did this.

About 10 to 15 years ago HMGS figured out the geographical center of all HMGS members. It was just outside of Philadelphia. Now mind you membership is not the same but how much could it of changed? Does it make sense to put it as close as possible to that spot for everyone's benefit?

I'm far more likely to drive to Joisey than to Virginia.

Of course, the actual fact that is that Lancaster and Eastern PA are actually not inconvenient for the crowd coming from Northern VA (or even middle VA). As a matter of fact, it is a far longer trip to Lancaster from the Northeast (say, anywhere in New York--and much longer if you're coming from anywhere in New England). The comparison is not even close.

So the actual truth is that it has been Northeastern gamers who have been making the longer drive to Lancaster without complaint.

So say whatever you're going to say, but please leave out the "we've been making the drive from VA to Lancaster without complaint for years" stuff.

I've lived in both regions. I've made both trips.

Zippity-Do-Dah!!!!

It was you folks from Maryland all the way to Maine who carried on the whine about driving to Fredericksburg!

So your silly comment holds no water, or much else!

Feel free to enjoy the ride to Jersey quietly!

Ok ! Im not saying I won't go to NJ if Hcon does indeed move there , Im just saying our group from South Florida just got use to only driving 16 hours to Fredericksburg . How many extra hours would it be ? We would fly but some of us run games and we all buy a ton of stuff ,so driving is easier .
Might just end up being to far but well see .

I have to drive in from Chicago.

Talk amongst yourselves.