"Debut Date for B-17G?" Topic

Here's a good WWII Air War trivia question:

What's the debut date for the first operational mission flown by the B-17G over Europe?

I can't recall that.

My guess is sometime between Oct. '43 – Jan. '44, but would like to know for sure.

Cookies for the person(s) who can also name the first raid target it debuted on, how many were available for the mission, and which squadrons/bomber groups they were assigned to.

I tried looking on-line, without any success.

I use a start date of 1st November 1943. I can't remember my source but there was one. It is hazy for may reasons not least many modifications to B17-Fs started appearing earlier in Autumn '43 and in game terms these would be the same.

No ideas on numbers or raids and not really in the running for cookies [since I can't cite a source]. If you do send some I'm lactose intolerant.

The best I can do is October 43, that being from my Osprey book about B-17s from the 8th Air Force. Nothing more specific, sorry.

<<<<By September 1943, the Flying Fortress showed its final shape during firepower tests on the XB-40, a modified B-17F with the advantage of a "chin" turret. The success of the chin turret, led to the delivery of the B-17G (the major production version), which was the first production variant to have a chin turret installed, under the nose.>>>
link

another on-line site: <<<Service delivery of unpainted B-17G January 1944>>>> but this site also says that operational delivery of the G was July 1943. However this site skips the F version delivery entirely going from E to G. So I suspect this latter July 43 may refer to the F version and not the G.

Thanks for the info.

I thought some might have been used on the second Schweinfurt raid, especially as lead bombers of the formations – read they did that when only a few were available as conversions of the older B-17Fs.

Ran across this today:

airvectors.net/avb17_2.html

Looks like it could have been as early as Sept. 6th, 1943, given the following quote below:

"The 8th Air Force recuperated for a few weeks, rebuilding strength with the new B-17Gs arriving from the US; then, on 6 September 1943, 338 Fortresses attacked Stuttgart, or at least tried to. The target was completely socked it and the Luftwaffe savaged the raiders. 30 Fortresses were lost, and no significant damage was done to the target".

Perhaps there were some even prior to that, given this statement in relation to the YB-40:

"These good ideas appeared in the next and definitive version of the Fortress, the "B-17G". The B-17G was basically a B-17F with the Bendix chin turret and the staggered waist gun windows. Eventually, these waist gun windows would be enclosed by Plexiglas panels. Incidentally, it appears a few very late-production Douglas-built B-17Fs also had the chin turret, though it is unclear if they had the staggered gun positions as well".

"These good ideas appeared in the next and definitive version of the Fortress, the "B-17G". The B-17G was basically a B-17F with the Bendix chin turret and the staggered waist gun windows. Eventually, these waist gun windows would be enclosed by Plexiglas panels. Incidentally, it appears a few very late-production Douglas-built B-17Fs also had the chin turret, though it is unclear if they had the staggered gun positions as well".

I wonder about the accuracy of this since some of what it says is clearly incorrect. Not all B-17Gs had staggered waist positions, in fact most did not. The staggered positions came in very late in the production, ironically around the time that 8th AF decided to do away with one of the waist gunners. And to my knowledge no B17F ever had staggered waist positions. Ironically perhaps in 1945 some groups experimented with removing the chin turrets of their "G"s as the danger from enemy fighters lessened.

Of course the YB 40, which was an experimental version intended to provide the B-17s with long range escort. The YB 40 not only had a chin turret but also the radio operators single machine gun was replaced by a Martin turret and increased armor and ammunition capacity. The major problem with the YB 40 of course was that as soon as the formations dropped their bombs they pulled away from the YB40s and no one thought it was a good idea to slow down to allow them to keep up. In fact the initial "G"s weren't universally popular when first introduced as crews figured that the chin turret would adversely affect performance.

And Plexiglas covers for the waist windows date to the E model, but were rarely used in the field.