"Is this cuirassier figure accurate??" Topic

This isn't my auction neither am I bidding in it, but it came up in one of my saved searches. It is for a pre-painted cuirassier figure whose cloak (on top of his valise) appears to be the same colour as his facings.

I thought all cuirassier cloaks were red?

I have always thought cuirassier cloaks were white. Hard to see, but it looks like the model has a white cloak with yellow facings which I would say is OK.

Something like this…

My only comment is that he does not have a cartridge pouch belt over his left shoulder. Keith's illustration shows this.

The clock of the late cuirassier is plain (grey, generally). The earlier included the facing colour as shown on Keith's picture. Similarly the uniform tail got shorter in the late uniform, but it's not visible off the original photo how long it is. Helmets varies over the years and in the end there was quite a mix, so that's not to worry too much about.

If the cuirassier does not carry a musket, then one can argue he does not need his cartridge pouch.

Here's the back view:

Good point about the musket. AIUI not every cuirassier was issued a carbine or musketoon and it is unclear on what basis those issued were apportioned. I have read separately that they were handed out on the basis of 10 per company, that they were issued to men who for whatever reason were without horses, and that some colonels enthusiastically dumped them at the depot on any available pretext.

the cloak was white with blue threads in between

Rousselot

"Le manteau, confectionné de drap blanc piqué de bleu"

also a piece of serge of the facing colour would run down at the inside of the front opening as well as in the slit on the rear.

With the Bardin regulations this cloak was re placed by a greatcoat with sleeves, which would loose those coloured cloth pieces. (introduced in about 1813)

Was the greatcoat white (with blue threads) or grey?

And painting the white/blue in miniature – anybody any good ideas of how to paint it – go for an off whote or a pale blue?

Thanks

Marc

I do like his clean shaven almost germanic continence. Very smooth, but hey its a collectors toy so what do I know.

looking at contemporary prints and paintings it looks pretty much white – or off white

This site may be helpful:

link

Does he have a Queue ? Indicating an Early Cuirassier, but the short coat-tails indicate a Late Cuirassier !!

If the cuirassier does not carry a musket, then one can argue he does not need his cartridge pouch.

For pistol cartridges?

I'd be surprised if all cuirassiers were indeded equipped with pistols as regulations suggest? 0:-)

the uniform cut is late napoleonics (short), implying one may expect a plain greatcoat.

He is very nicely done. I give all my cuirassiers the lined cloak folded to show facing colour, knowing it is totally wrong for 1815. It just looks so good.

Great painting. The grenades are so well done. I simply cannot get them right and it is infuriating. I can do Romanov and Habsburg and Prussian eagles and Napoleon's crest even in 18mm scale….I can do a crowned N for shabraque…….but hardly ever get a grenade right.

Minor criticisms. Black horse ideally for cuirassiers, but obviously they took what they could get. A moustache for a trooper though, no question. This is not an officer. Actually he seems to suffer from alopecia generally, for the fashion of the time!

The straps retaining the cloak onto the portmanteau…I usually show white…and three, here the central one does not rise to the top. Trivial ….but you did ask!

I think he is great. Very skilled work

the straps retaining the cloak – could be black – would depend on the time period

Tell me more v W.

This is the kind of thing that wakes me at night.

Do you mean early cuirassiers black straps and later ones white for the cloak on the portmanteau? I suspect you will know somehow…….I NEED TO KNOW THIS (sad I know)

I can now see the queue this chap has, despite lack of any other hair on his head.

Scharn. What a great site you linked to there. Fantastic. I have strugged to find suitable pictures

Painting wise, off white looks like it will work – some great colour references there.

TMP to the rescue again

I am very depressed to learn that cuirassier cloaks weren't red. Were not some cuirassiers once captured and their cloak material used to make red coats, or something?

@deadhead

Rousselot shows for the early cuirassiers – black straps for valisse – later ?1813 onwards – white ones, I would have to research this topic in full to come foreward with exact dates, but yes black for the old glory days of the French cuirassiers

For those who are interested in the measurements of the cloak for carabiniers, cuirassiers and dragons, see e.g. Berriat, Législation militaire, Tome troisième (éd. 1812), p. 286f.:

link

BTW, there is a typo regarding the circumference of the cape (rotonde) in all editions of this legislation which was not noticed and, as a consequence, repeated by the uniformologists (e.g. Pigeard): The circumference (tour) of the cape is said to be "600 millim. (4 pieds 11 pouces)". But, of course, 4 pieds 11 pouces is not 600mm, but 1m 600mm.

A comparison with the (correct) figure given for the circumference of the capes of cloaks for chevau-légers makes this evident: The circumference (pourtour) of those capes is given as "un mètre 950 millim. (6 pieds)" (Berriat, p.287)

As for the porte-manteau, the straps should be black according to the legislation: "…la patte de recouvrement fermera au moyen de trois courroies de cuir noir, de 270 millim. (10 pouces environ) de longueur, sur 25 millim. (1 pouce environ) de largeur;…" (Berriat, p.298)

Regarding the question of how many straps were used to fasten the cloak to the porte- manteau, the Ordonnance provisoire pour la cavalerie an XIII (éd. 1813) may be helpful.

link

See p.57, s.v. Cavalerie et Dragons, Manière de charger. I'm not sure whether I got that right but, apparently, three straps were used to fasten the porte-manteau to the saddlery, but only two to fasten the cloak on the porte-manteau. The two straps used to fasten the cloak on the porte-manteau may have been two more, separate (longer) straps? As a matter of fact, e.g. Bardin/Vernet show only two straps encircling both porte-manteau and cloak.

This Ordonnance also explains how to fold the cloak and what should be placed in the porte-manteau (p.56f.)

This cloak info is very useful. I would love to see them portrayed more often.

Researching the internet for my Polish lancers I came across this, with dimensions. Sorry to say I cannot recall the source to credit them accordingly;

Ah ha found it later (just in time to add!)

Bottom of page some very useful stuff there anyway above it;

link

deadhead

This is the cloak (manteau-capote) for chevau-légers as described in Berriat, p. 287 (see above). The uniform of the chevau-légers polonais is described pp.296ff. Nothing regarding their cloaks. As lancers were just chevau-légers equipped with lances, it's most likely that this is the cloak worn by them.