"Lion Rampant: Bidowers get 12 dice firing?" Topic

Got a game in this weekend with my wife, she ran Vikings versus my Normans. Lots of fun, will eventually get some pictures up.

I had two units of bow armed bidowers, thinking it would be more in period than having one unit of archers. Is it correct that bidowers roll 12 dice when firing? They hit on a 5+ and archers hit on a 5+, so is it correct that the two units of 6 bidowers throw 24 dice total, whereas a single unit of 12 archers firing volleys only throws 12 dice?

It does not feel right, I want to make sure I am reading the rules correctly, 4 points of bidowers has twice he firepower of 4 points of archers.

For the record, she won, her chief's bodyguard of dismounted men at arms hacked their way through three of my units, including one of mounted knights.

It is 12 dice. But they fire not so much, with the lower shooting order score. They get shorter range shots as well.

They seemed pretty darned powerful. Even with a 7+ shoot they were firing fairly often, and in the tactical situation on the table, a few times a unit would fire, then evade / skirmish on the following opponents turn, then fire again on thier turn.

Could have been that I just had good dice, we'll try it some more.

She really likes shooting, so next up I am doing Sicilian Moors with mixed foot for her.

Glad you liked the rules.

On the Bidowers there are a couple of things to balance them out. They have a smaller model number so it is easier to get them to half strength. They also have shorter Range, less armor, worst defense number in hand to hand, and less Courage than the other missile units.

We also made the mistake early only and forgot that when you shoot and evade your needed roll is increased. So they only hit on 6's when performing an evade.

The evade also requires a successful 7+ roll to achieve as well.

Tactically useful since they move easily and are happy in rough terrain, but their short range, high activation score for shooting, lousy melee defense and fragility (since they only have 6 hits) means they usually don't last long. With two units of them, they will also only both get to shoot about 1/3 of the time.

Bows shoot more frequently and farther, and are harder to kill off in melee.

Having said all that – I always take one or two for their speed and hinderance when you plant them in rough terrain.

Thanks all! I forgot about evade shooting only hitting on a 6. Part of the problem may be that I have a slightly smaller table, 5' x 3.75'

They were eventually driven off by the foot sergeants, and the only real reason they probably were as efefctive is because the foot sergeants had to pause at the edge of a creek, giving them an extra shot.

I will play a few more games as written and see.

For those interested, the armies were:

The Wife who must be obeyed (Vikings):
1 x Foot men at arms (chief with companions)
4 x Foot Sergeants (armored warriors)
1 x Bidowers

Me (Normans):
1 x Mounted Men at arms
1 x dismounted men at arms
2 x Foot Yeomen
2 x Bidowers

Toying with making the vikings fierce foot next time, as this is a raiding party and I think they should be a little harder hitting.

Jozis,

The Viking rentine is not legal. You can only have 3 units of a type or 12 points of them.

The table size does matter, but not so much with a normal game and your table size. Had a group game with 48 points per side on a 6x4 table. Had to make the separation distance 1 inch in order to have all the units on the table.

Sometimes they're also good to suck men at Arms into the woods with an impulsive charge !

Micman, you are correct, I completely missed that!

I will fiddle with the list and see what happens next game.

Micman, you can have FOUR units or 12 points, whichever is lowest.

So Serfs, Bidowers or Foot Yeomen would be OK with four units, but everything else would be up to 12 points worth.

I think that the rules for Bidowers work quite well (and I have only been on the wrong side of them). Flush them out with Archers if you can or (perhaps more appropriately in the case of vikings) try chasing them out with Fierce Foot.