"The Gatling in movies" Topic

Just curious?? Am I the only one -- who the minute he sees a Gatling gun in a movie gets up and walks away, or at least lets out a sigh?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

If I did that I would never had watched The Outlaw Josey Wales to the end and seen Clint notch up 54 kills in one movie.

I actually enjoy seeing one in a movie.

Only if it is used before 1864.

Its so fake!! Imagine the OK corral with a Gatlin gun -- or open range and Costner and Duvall pull out a gatlin gun from the stable = stupid !!! It would have put an end to Lonesome Dove or Quigly down under.
Its like an inner city street gang today and one gang shows up with an Abrams tank!!!! I mean really, how many people could show up in the west with one of these and the Ammo for it?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Theres one in the remake of the Magnificent Seven

I enjoyed the new Magnificent Seven with the exception of the Gatling/Ma Deuce. Bad enough to include one, worse to make it with a 1,000 round jam proof magazine.

The Gatling isn't the problem. They use smokeless powder-that's the problem.

I don't think The Wild Bunch would be the same without one.

As noted, depends on the movie

The War Wagon with John Wayne Awesome movie. The War Wagon carried a Gatling.

Didn't the Wild Bunch actually have a machine gun? It did take place in 1913 after all.

Yep-

YouTube link

The Wild West lasted a long time depending on where you were.

As in 310 to Yuma

YouTube link

The Gatling Gun (1971)
YouTube link

I am aware that they are not uncommon in movies -- just for me it wrecks the iconic western movie, no matter who stars in it or the name of the movie.
Same with vests and cowboy hats right out of a sears catalogue.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Russ, then you are only upset with seeing it in western movies? Is that correct?

I'm not upset with seeing it in some Western movies where it makes sense. But in too many of them it is a lame plot device. Same with miniatures, someone has recently sculpted a mini with dual gatlings on either side of a horse. It's just lame in my opinion.

Never said I was "upset" by anything??? Is THAT correct ????
Regards
Russ Dunaway

So I suppose you didn't like Django's belt-fed mitrailleuse either? Humph! Philistine!

Seriously… Westerns are heavily stylized theater, even the gritty "realistic" ones. I still think Open Range is one of the best Westerns ever, in spite of gaffs like Costner's 16-shooter single-action Peacemaker. An old-timey machine gun is all in good fun in the right context, and sometimes not even the worst offence.

Having said that, it could be fun to add realistic weapon issues to a Western – the time-consuming reloading of cap & ball pistols, jamming and unjamming partially cocked hammers and levers, frequent duds and misfires, trouble finding the right ammo, a guy who's bad at reloading a cap & ball pistol & sets off 2 or 3 chambers with one trigger pull, dirty cowboys uncharacteristically meticulous about keeping clean weapons ("Stop messin' with that pistol, Roy!" "But it got DUSTY!!!"), smoky gunfights, hearing problems (BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG "He went over there!" "What?" "Over there!!" "WHAT!?" "OVER THERE!!!!"), fumbling with the hammer on a single action pistol, confusion over 5-shooters and 6-shooters, and so on.

- Ix

Russ, the way you posted it and I quote "gets up and walks away or at least lets out a sigh" doesn't sound like you are thrilled with it. So someone reading it can take the point that you seem upset with it. Not that you are happy with it or are you trying to play the semantics game?

A lot of of the storytelling in Westerns centers around individual characters facing down the Man (cattle baron, criminal, corrupt politician), or the Machine (railroad or political forces).

I think that thematically the Gatling fits well into many westerns--either the bad guy uses it, showing his reliance on machines over the good guy's use of grit and guts, or the good guy turns it on the bad guy, showing the ingenuity and flexibility of the rugged individual over corporatism and mass-culture goons.

In any case, Gatlings are registered in the US and elsewhere as Very Cool, and therefore are a welcome addition to almost any movie.

The only western I have seen (which is admittedly few) featuring a gatling gun is the new Magnificent Seven. It was more of a plot device than a serious representation of the machine.

It's a conversation about if you like the galling gun in a movie --- not a trial -- IS THAT CORRECT ???
The question was simply, do other people dislike it like me ? It would seem at this point most like it. I still dont.
I am sure thankful Cooper didn't haul one out in high noon or Shane grab one to gun down Jack Palance -- the whole movie would have been ruined for me.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Well, I have to agree that a Gatling gun in a hip holster would be going too far. :-)

There are so many over-the-top tropes in the Western genre, it's hard for me to get upset about the occasional Gatling gun.

- Ix

All I can say is "The Outlaw Josey Wales"

All I can say is Deadwood, Tombstone, Shane, liberty Valance, Quigley down under, High noon, open range, Rooster Cogburn, the shootist and on and on I could go never used that prop.
Why not just bring in a whole battery of 12 pounders and add some currassiers if you really want flash ?
Now I know that westerns are not 100% accurate and historical but I would wager the average human living in the west never layer their eyes on a galling gun. I know it's fun, but to me it's so over the top it is so cheesy.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

No Gatlings unless they are used by, or taken from, the Army as part of the story.

Usually they are going for the hey cool, westerns aren't boring, they have machine guns (and usually excessive explosions)…if I wanted to see automatic weapons and excessive explosions I'd watch the action hero movie de jour.

Hurrumpf

Gary Cooper faced down a Gatling Gun in "Northwest Mounted Police" (1940). He did it on horseback with a lariat.

He faced down another Gatling along with Burt Lancaster in "Vera Cruz" (1954), and then turned it against its former owners, the Imperial Mexican Army.

I think both movies portrayed the Gatling's performance in combat fairly realistically.

The big gaffe in the use of the Gatling, was in "The War Wagon". The roof of the wagon was much too low to accommodate the magazine that fits on top of the Gatling, to feed the cartridges. Yet, it fired away with no magazine in the gun!! It's Hollywood, so what do you expect? The vast majority of people wouldn't know… just us military history nerds, notice stuff like that.

Well you can have them -- but when I think of the Earps, Hickok, Masterson, Billy the kid, the James gang, Holiday,the Clanton's, cattle drives, cow pokes, etc, etc, etc gatling guns never even cross my mind.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

I would like to see a Hotchkiss mountain gun in a movie.

Russ – I think you are over-egging the pudding a bit. I would say that probably 99% of Westerns I have seen do in fact have no Gatling guns. In the ones that did, they were either plot devices or had at least a bit of a reason for showing up – even if that reason was just some gratuitous slaughter.

All that I have to say is here is one really cool western Gatling gun put out by one really cool manufacturer:

link

I think you will agree with me on this one Russ.

No Gatlings unless they are used by, or taken from, the Army as part of the story.

Why? They were legal to purchase and own by individuals. Admittedly, they were expensive.

just tossing around dynamite bothers me more. Yes it was there, but that stuff is scary dangerous. I really dont see people just happening to have a few sticks in a saddle bag or laying around the store.Particularly not primed and fused.

I tend to agree. I was very excited about the new Magnificent Seven until I saw the trailer with the gatling gun. Completely turned me off from the movie.

In my memory of western viewings, both Gatlings and dynamite appear most often in Zapata westerns; perfectly reasonable – except when the setting is supposedly the French Intervention of the 1860s.

The Wild Bunch I can see the Gatling or machine gun for the simple reason they stole US Army weapons to be sold in Mexico during a time when the country was in upheaval.

I believe what Russ is getting at is private individuals owning something with a high cost and was something requiring some tender care to operate.

Personally, there are some movies where the Gatling shows up that I say, "Give me break!" because they are just out of place, especially in Spaghetti Westerns.

Gatlings that don't jam before 1867 or so are wrong. The cartridges were too soft before then. 5 or 10 shots would jam the guns, one of the many reasons they did not see service in the ACW.

I saw The Good, the Bad and the Ugly on the same bill with The Wild Bunch. First one is in Spain, Eli Wallach pretending to be Mexican. It also featured a captain who commanded what seemed like a regiment of troops, along with a functioning Gatling. The second film was shot in the southwest, the Mexicans were Mexicans. That pairing insured I didn't see many more spaghetti westerns.

Don't care too much if the movie is set in the last decade of the XIXth Century. Earlier settings I prefer no Gatlings, but it doesn't bother me to the point of walking away from a movie. New age pseudo-philosophy on the other hand… I draw the line there.

A Western is a Western, reality is rarely even an optional extra… like the link on this thread… TMP link

So no, can't say that any inaccuracies in Westerns are ever going to bother me.

I like them. So much that it's an optional weapon in Shoot N' Skedaddle. I don't have one modeled up so I've never used it, but I'd say it's borderline iconic for the more Hollywood of Western films. We play wargames with wildly exaggerated gunfights, so I guess I don't mind a stretch to include some overzealous use of dynamite or gatling guns.

However, when I'm watching a Western film there are two broad categories…Hollywood-heavy (Young Guns, (new) Magnificent Seven, etc.) and then more vaguely realistic (Open Range, Appaloosa etc.). I don't mind either, and I'll gladly watch them all. In fact I'd guess by the first fifteen minutes of a film you'll know which is which.

I think we'd all love to see more movies along the lines of Open Range, but I'd also bet you that the Hollywood-heavy films outsell the drier, more "sane" films 100:1.

In short, no, I don't agree. That's the beauty of opinions. Nothing to get riled up about.

One of the best portrayals I've seen of a Gatling in a series (not a movie) is in the 'Two Trains' episode of 'Hell on Wheels.'

A fictionalization of the building of the Transcontinental Railroad.

The Gatling is carried in a train (tripod mount) and is the arbiter of a shoot out between the main character's group and a rival group.

Gun had previously shown up in an episode (that I haven't watched) where it was used to defend Cheyenne from an Indian attack. Logical employment.

Not sure if the UP actually had a Gatling, but a railroad would certainly have been able to afford one and as they were on a rail line the logistics would be simple.

Props department for the show seems to do reasonably well on weaponry in general in the episodes I have seen – rather fond of 'Yellow Boys' when they are breaking out a case of rifles.