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"ST Attack Wing Encounter at Farpoint OP" Topic


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isdblues20 Sep 2016 2:28 p.m. PST

Another battle report from a recent OP event over on my blog!

link

picture

Hope you enjoy the read!

BlaxKleric20 Sep 2016 3:39 p.m. PST

Terrific stuff. I've left some comments on your excellent blog :-)

isdblues21 Sep 2016 11:49 a.m. PST

Cheers! I've added a follow option to it now, completely forgot to do it!

There are plenty of reports on there and there should be a new one every two weeks or so (that's when the OP events are held in our local store)…

MacrossMartin21 Sep 2016 7:19 p.m. PST

Errrrrum…. *Grinds teeth*

I'm not going to deny you your enjoyment of STAW. You clearly find fun in the game, and so, more power to you.

But THIS is why I cannot get into Attack Wing. Picard on the Reman predator? In the same fleet as KAHN commanding a Klingon cruiser?????

Not blaming or condemning you for your choices; obviously, you took those characters and those ships for the benefits they provide in a tournament. I get that. All good.

But it seems to me that Attack Wing itself does nothing to encourage 'historical' (for want of a better term… 'canonical' perhaps) combinations of crew and starship. I never see, for example, Federation or Cardassian fleets forming up. It's always Picard on a Borg Sphere, Fed fighters alongside Dominion battleships, etc, etc…

I'd like to think that even Q would have exclaimed "Oh, come on!" at the sight of a couple of Constitutions teaming up with a Xindi ship from a century before, with fighters from a century later!

It just feels to me that the designers of STAW just don't give two shakes of a Mugato's whatsits for actual Star Trek. This doesn't FEEL like Star Trek. To me, that's a failure of design.

By way of contrast, in the old Decipher CCG, Picard on the Enterprise-D was an awesome combo, capable of performing the sort of heroics you'd expect from the Federation flagship. Yet in STAW, the Galaxy seems to be particularly vanilla. STAW comes across as designed by someone who'd never watched a single episode, or if they did, they didn't care much for what they saw.

Also, is it just the impression given by this tournament, or would players of STAW agree that fighters seem overpowered? I don't recall Star Trek combat being big on fighters, Star Wars style.

Okay, grumpy old Trekkie rant over. Please go back to enjoying your game, however it plays! :)

isdblues22 Sep 2016 6:26 a.m. PST

Well MacrossMartin, there is nothing to stop anyone playing "faction pure" as it were, and for some OP games I have done, usually fully Dominion. In fact 3 of the 5 OP events I've been too I ran entirely Dominion, not one single card out of faction, and I did win two of them.

When you play friendly games there is no real reason to play out of faction either – but when you attend an OP event such as the one listed above, you have to give yourself the best chance of winning and sometimes that means running things that are out of faction.

I can well imagine that people would get irked at the thought of Khan commanding a Klingon Vor'cha – I do myself! But when the chips are down and you really want to win, why would you purposefully tie one hand behind your back?

Looking at the fleets that were used at this recent event – one was entirely Romulan, one was entirely Federation, one was 3/4 Klingon and the other two fleets (both mine and the swarm) were the only ones that were well off it.

There is nothing in the rules to prevent people mixing factions and you do pay a penalty for using them out of faction, sometimes swallowing your pride and saying "I need to use this card for my strategy to work" has to be done.

For most OP events the event rules themselves often dictate how you need to build your fleet – the Wrath of Khan OP event for example wanted you to use ships with 360 arcs and high hull as whilst in the nebula your range was limited and your shields were useless – so the Enterprise-D with Picard or the Regent's Flagship with Regent Worf and Mirror Garak would have been perfect for it and were in use on the day.

Every single ship has its own use and sometimes expansions are perfectly playable by themselves – the Alpha Hunter for example, if you use Karr (the Hirogen captain that comes with it), Stalking Mode (one of his elite talents) and the data network (used by the Hirogen in Voyager), you have an absolute deadly ship that is exactly what is was in Voyager.

Most ships are like that, you can use them with the cards that come in their own expansion and be perfectly viable and most of the time we do.

The prize ship for this OP for example is the USS Hood. It comes with the Hood itself, Robert DeSoto as the captain, Will Riker as a crew card and a few others, such as upgraded phasers/upgraded shields etc.

I'd use that ship as it is from the pack and have everything be spot on to the show – DeSoto is the captain of the Hood, the version of Riker included was his first officer and during the Dominion war it did have upgrades after a systems upgrade – all perfectly "canon" and usable in game.

The fact that the Hood prize ship is exceptionally hard to get hold of where I live meant that regardless of my own irratation, I had to give myself the best chance of winning. We had a couple of players turn up from over 50 miles away just to try and win the Hood, they were very open about it as well. No problem with that from my end, the greater the challenge the sweeter the victory.

I went through about 15-20 variations of lists to use for this OP alone, some of them faction pure, some of them not – the list I choose in the end gave me the best chance of winning and at the same time having an enjoyable day.

When it comes to attack fighters, yes they are powerful but you have to have a large ship in order to run each set of them – one of the cheapest ships this is possible with just happens to be the Constitution, which in and of itself is no slouch. It was one of the lists I considered for the day itself, along with 3x Galor & 2x Hideki squadrons, 2x Vor'cha & 2x Hidekis – so many variations can be done you sometimes just have to go with what feels right.

As it was, in the last game Vs the attack fighter heavy list, I had wiped half of it off the board before my opponent damaged me – one of the Q effects then whisked my captains off the board which allowed him to fire first and rip apart my Reman Warbird, had that Q effect not happened then the game may have ended differently.

Every list can be beaten, every game can be won or lost at several different places: the fleet building stage, the manouvering, the roll of the dice during attack/defence, even the timing used for upgrades – there are so many different combinations and variations that no fleet can account for every type of enemy.

I could have run 3 D'Deridex, all fully faction pure Romulan, that would have fired first each round and three times at every ship in front of them – that would have decimated the fighter heavy build but against the others wouldn't have lasted 4 or 5 turns.

In the end, he ran the correct fleet for the event and came out on top.

My fleet wasn't designed to combat that many fighter squadrons – that was the one type of fleet I couldn't build for – had the other players all brought fighter heavy fleets I would have been mauled. As it was I was lucky that my strategy for the day worked against the majority of my opponents.

One of the reasons that I enjoy that game so much is because of the sheer variety of the builds you can make – every time you play you see something new, something you hadn't encountered before or a new way to use that upgrade you've always discounted as useless. Each player learns from each game, each loss teaches you, each victory teaches you.

It's a wonderful game, even more enjoyable than X-Wing in my opinion and I do enjoy X-Wing.

If you want a more balanced look at things, check out the OP reports that I've previously put on my blog – you'll see plenty of faction pure, era pure fleets in play.

That's the fun of it – the strategy, the tactics, the actual playing of the game – give it a chance, stick to faction pure/era pure if you feel that you need to and enjoy!

MacrossMartin22 Sep 2016 7:42 a.m. PST

Well, I can't deny that you build a knowledgeable and convincing argument in favour of STAW.

I'm pleased to hear that your own experience of the game has included some faction-specific builds, certainly more than has been my experience; perhaps the players 'round these parts just have an especially 'cheesy' attitude to winning (i.e., at all costs).

I'd be happy to give STAW another chance if I thought I could find regular opponents who are happy to give canon-inspired lists a fair shake, but they seem as rare as bald Tribbles.

Still, if I had to point to the one aspect of the game that I really dislike, its the fact that there isn't a real, active effort on the behalf of the designers to reward the creation of canon forces; as you say, there is a penalty for stepping out of a faction, but not a reward for staying within. And clearly, that punishment is not severe enough to prevent, as I said, nonsense like Picard commanding a Borg Sphere.

As a result, most of the games I've seen or played don't look like a battle from the Star Trek universe; they look like random ships (sometimes the same ships on each side!) zipping about.

X-Wing does, at least, require (and to a degree, reward) faction-specific builds, which prevents the rather jarring (in my opinion) image of Darth Vader in an A-Wing shooting down Han Solo's Tie Bomber… ;)

I guess I can only describe it as not feeling like Trek to me. I'll happily agree to being told that someone else feels that it is exactly like Star Trek, but we'd have to agree to disagree.

But as I said, more power to you for the fact you take such enjoyment from the game. I must confess, on a side-note, I am not fond of games in which building CCG-like 'combos' can arbitrate victory. That's been the big turn-off for me with X-Wing. Nice to play in a friendly setting with one's chums, but not so much fun in competitive play.

Happy to see you find such pleasure in the game. You do it a great service with your advocation. WizKids should buy you a Starfleet uniform, and pay you to go around promoting STAW! :D

isdblues22 Sep 2016 8:13 a.m. PST

Any game where you can have factions you're always going to get people using the same ones to play against each other.

At a recent X-Wing tournament I can recall seeing T-65 X-Wings and T-70's facing off against each other, Tie Fighters being blown out of the stars by Interceptors and IG-88 killing IG-88!

You could have Luke Skywalker striking the killing blow to Han Solo, whilst Biggs is attacking Wedge – or even Darth Vader destroying a shuttle carrying the Emperor (wait… that's almost feasible).

Whatever miniature game you play you'll always get that, so I personally don't find that as any sort of reason for it not feeling Trek.

If, in the example you give regarding Picard on the Sphere, with the 50 point limit in play for a ship, you wouldn't be able to fit any other upgrade on that ship – it would be (and has been) an easy target, so in a way, that extra point cost for non-faction upgrades can hurt in most instances – this is a game where every point can count.

It's not only about the combos you can make though, it's also about how you play that combo in the game and how you cope when inevitably something prevents it from running as it should. I can say that as often as my combos have worked, I've had to play hard to get them in a position to work and in some instances my opponent has completely sidestepped my game-plan. That's when you are challenged, that's when you have to really play the game and play well to win.

There's no such thing as an auto-win combo.

And yes, I really do like the game!

BlaxKleric22 Sep 2016 3:00 p.m. PST

If I could just add as someone stuck within an area where there is simply no hope of any OP tournaments, and thus any chance of picking up even the simplest of limited prizes, I would certainly condone doing all one can (within the rules obviously) to get hold of a vessel like the U.S.S. Hood. Khan controlling a Klingon vessel grated on me too, but equally I'd want the Hood :-)

As it is I'm having to pay premium prices just to get my hands on some of the cardboard tokens used during these events, so I can face the likes of the Doomsday Machine, and I don't want to think how much I've paid for the Enterprise-A – as I dislike the fiddly smaller version of the Constitution class.

Ultimately, are you having fun Isdblues. I'd say yes, and I certainly am reading your STAW postings :-)

isdblues23 Sep 2016 4:57 a.m. PST

Cheers BlaxKleric! I am having fun, even writing my blog!

Oh by the way:

link

Just for you!

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