"British armoured division organisation Middle East '41/42." Topic

Trying to work my way through the Machievelian changes in British armoured division organisation. Particularly desert divisions. As I understand it in April '40 the motor battalions in the support group were transferred to the armoured brigades, giving each brigade a single battalion of infantry and a lorried infantry battalion was added to the support group. Was this lorried battalion transported by RASC or did they have their own lorries?
In early '42 an infantry brigade was added to the armoured division and they were reorganised into brigade groups. With an armoured brigade and an infantry brigade. Apart from the motor battalions in the armoured brigade I assume the infantry in the infantry brigade group were standard leg infantry transported by RASC as required.
In August/September '42 they were reorganised again, but I'm not clear how. Did the motor battalions stay with the armoured brigades? Did they return to 2 armoured brigades per division? I assume the infantry brigade went to the support group.

For Desert War organizations, I highly recommend 'Benghazi Handicap'. I don't have my copy at hand, but I can answer some of your questions

The motor battalions were with the support group through 1941. In all cases they had their own organic transport.

Yes I realised the motor battalions had there own transport, I was wondering whether the lorried infantry battalion added to the support group in 1940 and the infantry brigade added to the armoured divisions in '42 did?
Does Benghazi Handicap distinguish between integral transport and RASC trucks used to move the infantry when required.

It all gets a bit messy in the desert, org wise.

The "Type III" Armd Div was based on experience in France 1940 and is dated Oct40. That consisted of HQ, Armd C regt, two Armd Bdes, a Sp Gp and Div Engrs.

Armd Bde had three Armd Regts (their mix of tank types being a minor epic as well), plus one Mot Bn, which was tactically mobile (that is had enough tpt to move all tps in one lift, and retain their sub-unit org). The Sp Gp had one each RHA/Fd Regt, Atk Regt and LAA Regt, plus a standard Inf Bn. This required a Section of TCVs to lift the Rifle Coys and other sub-units. RE added two Fd Sqns and a Fd Pk Sqn.

In early 1942 ME began to make their own arrangements (Type IV Div), which put the focus on the Bde as the primary formation. Armd Divs retained an Armd C Regt, and now had one Armd Bde Gp, one Mot Bde Gp (note, not Inf Bde), and Div Engrs. Armd Bde Gps now consisted of three Armd Regts, one Mot Bn, and added a RHA/Fd Regt (which included an organic Atk Bty), a LAA Bty and a reinforced RE Tp. The Mot Bde had three Mot Bns, one RHA/Fd Regt (again with Atk Bty), one LAA Bty and the RE Fd Sqn (less the Tp with the Armd Bde). Div Engrs kept one Fd Sqn and the Fd Pk Sqn.

Meanwhile, back in the UK, Home Forces moved onto the "Type V" Armd Div. This mirrored ME experience, with one Armd Bde (three Armd Regts plus one Mot Bn), one Inf Bde (three Inf Bns, carried by RASC TCVs), Div Arty (two RHA/Fd Regts, Atk Regt, LAA Regt) and Div Engrs (two Sqns and one Fd Pk Sqn). This format was introduced in the ME circa Aug42 as Type VI, and added a third RHA/Fd Regt (these no longer had Atk Btys as Atk Regts returned) to Div Arty and reformed Div engrs into two Fd Sqns and a Fd Pk Sqn. The Inf Bde could be replaced by a Mot Bde. As always Mot Bns and Bdes had full tpt while Inf Bdes needed RASC TCVs to lift their Rifle Coys and certain sub-units.

Gary

It all gets a bit messy in the desert, org wise.

Too right. Ok I think I have a handle on it. Do you know which armoured divisions had motor brigades and which had infantry brigades?

Get Benghazi Handicap — you will want all the reference info in that.

That book does not seem to be available anywhere. Any suggestions where to find it? My google fu fails me.

BH also only covers 1940/41 (Compass, Battleaxe, Brevity and Crusader), not 1942.

"Do you know which armoured divisions had motor brigades and which had infantry brigades?"

You can usually tell by the brigade designations e.g. at El Alamein 1st AD had 7th Motor Brigade, 10th AD had 133rd Lorried Indian Brigade and 7th D doesn't seem to have had any infantry at all apart from the motor Bns in each of the two armoured brigades. 2nd NZ Div was of a course a law unto itself being a sort of armoured infantry division.

'Divisions of the British Army' by Malcolm Bellis gives a pretty good month by month composition of each and every division down to battalion/regiment/field squadron level.

"In August/September '42 they were reorganised again, but I'm not clear how. Did the motor battalions stay with the armoured brigades? Did they return to 2 armoured brigades per division? I assume the infantry brigade went to the support group."

The answer to all these questions is essentially 'yes'.

As noted above, 7th AD went with two armoured briagdes, 1st AD had one armoured and one motorised brigade, 10th AD had an armoured brigade and a lorried infantry brigade and 2nd NZ had an armoured brigade and two infantry brigades.

1st Armd Div had 200 Gds Mot Bde Gp from Feb-Jun42 (becoming 201 Bde before capture at Tobruk). They were replaced by 7 Mot Bde from Sep42, which in turn became the lorried 18 Inf Bde in Jul43.

7th Armd Div had 7 Mot Bde originally, Feb-Sep42, then 131 Lorried Inf Bde from Nov42.

8th Armd Div had no integral inf/mot units, but had 133 Lor Inf Bde attached for the latter half of Sep42.

10th Armd Bde had (guess who) 7 Mot Bde for the latter part of Sep42, then 133 Lor Inf Bde from end Sep to end Nov42, then 201 Gds Mot Bde for Jan43.

Another shout for Bellis, though if you can afford Joslen you'll use it such a lot.

Gary