"Small Caliber Guns" Topic

Does anyone use small caliber guns in their games? By that I mean anything larger than a musket but still under a 6pdr.

If so, how do you use them in your games?

Many historic OBs call for entire batteries of 3 or 4 pounders. Some armies for certain years in our rules (Empire) model battalion guns which are inevitably light guns. These are rolled for as usual. I've played other rules where one nationality that historically used battalion guns heavily got a +1 or something on their dice rolls w/o actually modelling the guns.

Are we talking things like wall guns and swivel guns?

I was thinking battalion guns, galloper guns, 3-4 pounders, whatever they are called.

I play Black Powder, in which they say they don't have rules specifically because they just take the firing into consideration. I was thinking of ways to add them to the game.

I do it all the time. Early Civil War battles, for example, have them all over the place.

I treat them exactly like other guns, they just shoot like c**p.

Crispy,

You have them shoot like crud, as in always needing a 6 to hit or to wound? Any further insight?

I use them occasionally, when the scenario calls for them.

They were definitely much less effective at canister range considering the smaller load, and, given adequate sight lines, the larger calibers could have an effect on targets at ranges that the smaller guns couldn't even reach. In the middle ranges, though (say, 400 to 900 yards) where either could place a roundshot with fair accuracy, there was less difference in effect. Certainly, when a shot of any size plowed through a file of infantry, it made little difference to the targets if it was a 12 pounder or a 3 pounder.

My Prussians have a battery of 4pdrs, I could get a 3prd sled battery for my Russians but it would be above and beyond what I'm lookingfor.

3 and 4 pounders can keep up with infantry and go through terrain that 6 pounders can not. (weight is about 600 pounds so you could prolong the think and pretty much keep up with infantry- AND go places where you could not push a 6 pounder) Their range is not THAT much less then the bigger guns (1st graze ~500 yards v 600 v 7-- for 6 and 12 pounders.) The important thing is that they greatly outrange smoothbore musket fire and a 3 pound shot will kill just as many men as a 12 pound shot.

They also raise the morale of your poorer troops= isn't it nice to see the approaching enemy being fired at and having men knocked down? They also lower the morale of the enemy troops- getting killed by a 4 pound ball is just as scary as being killed by a 12 pound ball. Troops under artillery fire are never as happy as those that are not.

So….. in wargaming terms they might help and hurt morale. They might be able to travel with infantry by prolonging. And at short (say half and closer) cannister range they might fire as 40-80 troops (assuming 1 oz cannister).

We've had them in some games. Typically we just use them as eye-candy and give the battalion they are attached to an extra shooting die or some such.

I have a note somewhere, which refuses to come to light, that reported German tests which concluded that a 3 pdr was as effective as a 6 pdr at canister range, fired more rapidly and had more ammunition readily available per weight.

However, against that we might weigh these conclusions in Duncan's 'History of the Royal Artillery' re. the "pernicious system of battalion guns" :

"TO prevent these guns from impeding the infantry to whom they belonged, their weight was reduced to an extent which made their fire under the most favourable circumstances all but useless. Secondly, as a matter of fact, they did seriously encumber their infantry. For Infantry compelled to drag guns along with them could not be expected to march, even on smooth and level plains, with the same order and rapidity a infantry who marched free from such an encumbrance; and in a cultivate country, intersected with ditches, hedges, and walls, the guns had to be abandoned altogether. In this latter case they not only failed to fulfil the very object otheir existence, but left a gap in the line which, as they were generally placed in the centre of the battalion, might produce fatal consequence. Thirdly., as it was necessary for them to take part in all manoeuvres of the battalion, the necessary time was not afforded to the gunners for placing, loading, or laying their guns carefully. … Fourthly, their constant presence with their infantry led the latter to look upon the guns as necessary to the safety of the battalion, and thus diminished that self confidence which infantry must possess to be successful…

In fine, this bad system weakened the Artillery without strengthening the Infantry…"

HISTORY OF THE ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY
MAJOR FRANCIS DUNCAN
3rd Ed. 1879 Vol. II

CH. III (p.54)

WITH THE DUKE OF YORK IN FLANDERS

I use these as regimental artillery in EMPEROR rules.
They shoot in skirmish phase as additional skirmishers.

The French used a lot of 4pdrs, especially in Spain, where they comprised the bulk of divisional artillery. They replaced them with 6pdrs in other theatres except as regimental artillery.
Worth making the effort to represent them – but should lack the power of 6pdrs. They may not have been much less effective than British light 6pdrs, which used a reduced charge – I teat them as the same.

Matthew

The difference in 'weight' of the term 'pounds' should also be taken into consideration.

For example, a French 4-pounder would almost be a '5-pounder' in English measurement. The French 8-pounder would almost be a 9-pounder in English measure. And the French 6-pounder threw a heavier ball than either the British or the Austrian 6-pounder.

The best thing to do, if anyone is interested, is to find and look up a period table of weights and measures of the different belligerents. There is a detailed one in Louis de Tousard's American Artillerist's Companion.

At the new rules "Tin soldiers in Action" from Rüdiger and Klaus Hofrichter (Partizan Press 2016) Battalion Guns were represented by giving bataillons the possibilty to fire with one dice at a longer range. We used then appropriate artillery pieces aside those batallions to indicate the precense of those guns. Amazingly the rule have similiarly effects as in 42flanker´s note. It is so nice to shoot with more range but it really encumbered the advance of the infantry. A real historic effect following Major Duncan´s informations in 42flankers note above.

We play Empire rules, which accomodate battalion guns during some years. The guns are modeled as 4 pdrs, accompany poorer morale troops and can make a contribution to the battalion's ability to place hits on the opponent during firefights for example.

I am painting up the beautiful Saxons sculpted by Paul Hicks and offered by Kawe of Westfalia Miniatures. Kawe has a very nice Saxon 4 pdr sculpted by Niels.

Remember the 4-pdr Schnellfuergeschutze guns could fire up to 8 rounds per minute canister in emergency. This is not taken into account in any rules. After about a minute or two the barrel would over heat.

Big guns are fine for knocking down walls but a 6-pdr battery could outshoot a 12-pdr battery at under 1000 paces.
Stephen