"Most Evil Person in Military History?" Topic

Who would you nominate?

Most would be 20th century candidates I suspect. Hitler comes to mind, as does Stalin, but Pol Pot and Mao are both up there in terms of body counts. I'd probably give it to Stalin just from body count, with Hitler close behind.

Shaka of the Zulu.

Vlad the Impaler?

Stalin.

Most known may be from the 20th century, but there are countless others throughout the ages from the ranks of both civilized and uncivilized humans.

The guy that invented the History Channel.

There are so many evil dictators of the Twentieth century. The most evil are:
Stalin
Hitler
Pol Pot
Franco
Mussolini
Mao

Genghis Khan.

Genghis Khan? He was a sweetheart compared to Tamerlane

I would say Hitler and Stalin are right up there

As an out of the box, how about Kaiser William II? If he had stood up to Gloomy Julius we could have avoided World War I and Hitler would be a failed painter in Vienna while Stalin would be a small time crook

That list of 20th century dictators and no one mentioned the three generations of L'il Kims?

Mao Tse Tsung.

Dr. Evil, of course.

Hitler.

Stalin. Even Hitler had some soft spots.

Yea, I think Stalin for the win, but he's got a lot of company mentioned above, too.

Mao was the worst. Far worst than anyone in modern times. The Bolsheviks, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and the usual suspects. But Mao killed millions of his own people. Some estimates place the number of deaths up to 78 million.

"Mao's Great Leap Forward alone killed 45 million in four years. He qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, according to an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives"

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1. Mao Zedong (49-78 million deaths)
2. Jozef Stalin (23 million deaths)
3. Adolf Hitler (17 million deaths)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (2-15 million deaths)
5. Hideki Tojo (5 million deaths)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (2.5 million deaths)
7. Pol Pot (1.7 million deaths)
8. Kim Il Sung (1.6 million deaths)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (400,000 – 1.5 million deaths)
10. Yakubu Gowon (1.1 million deaths)

For pure evil: Stalin

Evil isn't necessarily measured in terms of body count or by listing the major enemies of the West. I realise that the victors write the history books but I would have hoped for a more reasoned discussion.

First define Evil.

I've seen one estimate claiming Genghis Khan's war of conquests resulted in the deaths of 40 million people, or about 10% of the world's population at the time. That would make him worse than any 20th century dictator, in terms of his actual impact on world population. That said, I've always been skeptical about that number as it seems rather poorly sourced and based more on speculation than hard data. But Genghis did kill more people than Tamerlane, although Tamerlane was far more cruel in his campaigning, from what I understand.

This sort of thing is always an exercise in "great man history", which I find to be nonsense.

"Mao" didn't kill that many people, neither did "Stalin", neither did "Hitler".

Every murderer and scoundrel in history was aided and enabled by millions of people "doing their job" and "following orders", "It's harsh but it must be done" and "Oh, we wish there was something we could have done".

The same trivialities often murmured by witless apologists even today, whether they are apologizing for the blood of Stalin-era USSR, denying the Holocaust, shrugging at the famines of colonial India or trivializing the annihilation of North American native culture.

Well said, Weasel.

I submit that I am eviller than Hitler or Stalin – I am just not as efficient or successful, that's all.

Weasel +1

This is an easy one: my SDI at Parris Island.

I'd say it isn't people like Stalin, Hitler and Mao that came up with the ideas that are evil, but the people who implemented the ideas and pulled the triggers. The Gestapo or SS guys that lynched and murdered civilians and prisoners alike are the truly evil ones, as are the Communist Party members that killed their countrymen. The leaders are so far from the mud and blood that they are basically idealists with no truly tangible connection to the atrocities.

1. Mao Zedong (49-78 million deaths)
2. Jozef Stalin (23 million deaths)
3. Adolf Hitler (17 million deaths)

The problem with comparing numbers is that Hitler had his plans thwarted – he *wanted* to kill more than Mao did but didn't get the chance.

Based on some of the above, I appears "I was just GIVING orders" is a valid defense.

Regarding evil in military history as the OP reads:

First, Hitler
Then, Stalin

This is taking into account sheer disregard for human lives be them enemies, allies or even own soldiers. Those two were acting in an age that had gone far from Genghis practical use of terror, for example (from an era which did not consider wasting lives as an evil thing). Others like Franco, Trotsky or Mussolini, while evil to the bone, did not reach the extremes of those two sobs.

Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer. He defeated the Bulgars, captured 15,000 of them and blinded 99 of every 100 men, leaving one one-eyed man in each cohort to lead the rest back to their ruler. Now that was just evil.

I would take Mussolini off the 20th century list of evil guys; he was more of a dangerous buffoon and was nowhere in the league of Stalin, Hitler, etc.

The guy that invented the weedeater. I friggin' HATE weedeaters!

Belay that, I'm sorry, you said Military History.

yo mamma

Yo mamma so mean, your bath toys were an iron and a toaster.

I may get into trouble for this but,,,

Historical accuracy and fact says,that more people have been killed in the name of Mohammed than all those listed above combined.

Given his history, he qualifies as a military leader.

As long as you mention Tamarlane, don't forget Hulugu.

Phil "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" Sheridan, G.A. Custer, John Gibbon, George Crook.

Substitute German for Cavalry and Juden for Indian and see if you can tell the difference.

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" more people have been killed in the name of Mohammed than all those listed above combined."
In which case – Jesus wins!
Whoop! Whoop!

I think Mao and Stalin killed their victims without being at war. Hitler killed his as part of policy during war. Indeed stated clearly that should war happen he would deal with Jews and others.
Those 'heroes' of the West mentioned by Phil above certainly used mass murder as a weapon, as did the British Empire in its many and various efforts to civilise the world.
But like that bloke says, its like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy Five Hundred.

"more people have been killed in the name of Mohammed than all those listed above combined"

Citation please. What is the actual number? Because I'm having a hard time buying it. Not saying there haven't been people killed in the name of Islam -- there have been people killed in the name of every religion (well, maybe not Jainism.)

Mohammed was a military leader, but a lot of the Islamic conquests happened after he died and were driven by pretty much what all conquests are driven by -- the desire for more land and resources. Plus the Muslims didn't typically slaughter populations because they liked all those taxes they got from nonbelievers. For the purposes here, not sure your comparison fits.

The industrialization of death, the macabre medical experiments, the ovens, the horrific transformation of an entire country (read "Hitler's Wiiling Exectioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" if you can stomach it). Perhaps not by body count, but by sheer evil, Hitler gets my vote.

I vote Andrew Jackson, cause I'm part Cherokee

While not the most evil, but pretty darn bad. This twentieth century "icon" was extremely evil but fortunately not that competent. If he was competent he would've been named by many more people on this list.

He loved to preside over extra-judicial murders, even pulling the trigger himself on many occasions. He ordered and participated in torturing family members of folks who disagreed with him. He even hated Rock and Roll!!! and would throw teens who listened to it into re-education camps. The more you find out about this "Dude", the more evil he becomes. And yet people wear shirts with his face on the front with pride.
It's Che.

Mao.

Double W

Starting with these sources approximately 105 million low ball estimate.
link link
You can find further details yourself.

Troopwo please use a creditable site that uses actual historical evidence. I'm not sure if you are aware but that website is one of those sites that tries to pass them self of as fact while trying advance an anti-Islam agenda. They are not in the least creditable, sorry.

What Private Matter said. That's not a credible site. I mean, the first example it gives is slavery, which was hardly unique to the Muslim world. There is no doubt a lot of people have died because of Islam, but a lot of people have died because of Christianity and Judaism and atheism (under communism). I just think for the purposes here, you can't count Mohammad because he was dead when Muslims began their conquests, unlike Hitler or Mao who were alive when the worst atrocities were carried out under their names.

The website itself is not a source but it does cite where and who it gets the numbers from. Follow those leads and do your own research. Seriously you discount Thomas Sowell?

Some actually claim as high as 270 million.
But that is ok, this board is not to convince you but to share your opinion. Enjoy the diversity of thought as it were.

While this choice may have touched a nerve for some, as far as most evil person in military history, it still qualifies as conquer and pillage by the sword under his inspiration and guidance as it were.

Funny, has anyone mentioned Julius Caesar and the milllion estimated Gauls?

The same reasoning at the top of this thread by GildaasFacit and Weasel apply just as equally. How many of the above individuals actually did their own killing? or was it thier followers and forces and directives?

Just doing my job,,,
just following orders,,,

,,,but enough of this perhaps and we can concentrate on other mass murderers that catch your fancy.

Does Woodrow Wilson qualify for coming up with a temporary income tax?
He was as a wartime leader and he was alive at the time.

I gotta agree with Vlad the Impaler. And yes, he did some of his own killing.

Troopwo, using your logic Jesus Christ should be on the list because argueably millions have been killed over the centuries either in his name or to spread Christianity by folks who have perverted his teachings. Think about it please. Now I'm going to shut up on the matter in that I am violating my own rules about not getting into debates with specific individuals on TMP even responding to comments I feel are based upon prejudice rather than fact.