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"Would you fight in the Spanish Civil War?" Topic


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28 Oct 2017 11:03 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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World War Two on the Land

2,714 hits since 11 Sep 2016
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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peterx Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 4:26 p.m. PST

If you were alive during the Spanish Civil War, would you have volunteered for either side? Which faction would you choose?
A. The Falange (ultra- nationalist Spanish Fascist Party)
B. The Requetes (right wing monarchist Catholic faction)
C. Nationalist Air Force (pilots and aircrew siding with the Francoists)
D. Nationalist Army (Franco's army defending the monarchy, the Catholic Church, and the military junta generals)
E. Non-combatant volunteer for the Nationalists
F. Italian Fascist volunteer (army, navy, or Air Force)
G. Condor Legion (Nazi volunteers for the Nationalist side with Luftwaffe, navy, Wehrmacht, or advisor positions)
H. Russian volunteers ( Soviet soldiers, airmen, tankers and advisors backed by Stalin)
I. Union Worker volunteer for the International Brigades ( various countries)
J. Socialist for the International Brigades (various countries)
K. Communist volunteers for the international Brigades (various countries)
L. Anarchist volunteers for the CNT and FAI organizations in Spain (from various countries)
M. Non-Stalinist communist volunteer for POUM (George Orwell volunteered with this organization)
N. Republican volunteer non-combatant role
O. I would not volunteer for this war
P. I don't know about the Spanish Civil War
Q. Other

Weasel12 Sep 2016 4:35 p.m. PST

Being not Spanish, I'd be a brigadier with anarchist/POUM sympathies.

That's of course assuming I wasn't an out of shape slob in this alternate reality.

peterx Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 4:42 p.m. PST

Of course, we would all have to be young and fit people in the alternate universe of the Spanish Civil War. I would magically transform from my overweight, middle-aged, and unfit self, so I could volunteer as a non-combatant support personnel working for the CNT/FAI or POUM.

John Leahy12 Sep 2016 4:43 p.m. PST

Nope. The Republican side was dominated by the Communists as the war progressed and executions of their own ranks were not uncommon.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian12 Sep 2016 4:58 p.m. PST

Probably the Requested or Nationalist Army

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 5:06 p.m. PST

Option B or D. I'd have to help defend against the commies.

Cyrus the Great12 Sep 2016 5:07 p.m. PST

O. Not being Spanish.

peterx Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 5:08 p.m. PST

I forgot to add :
R. The Spanish Foreign Legion based in Morocco fighting for the right wing Francoist generals.
S. Carlist troops who were right wing traditionalist monarchists fighting for the junta Francoists.

John Armatys12 Sep 2016 5:10 p.m. PST

O. Never volunteer.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 5:16 p.m. PST

J or M

FusilierDan Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 5:25 p.m. PST

Given the political leanings of my youth and my nationality,
J. Socialist for the International Brigades (various countries)

Now not so much.

flooglestreet Inactive Member12 Sep 2016 5:26 p.m. PST

If I was young and niave again, I'd go J. I am a Socialist.

There should be at least 2 more choices.The Carlists and the Requetes are the same. Ultra conservative Catholic backers of the Don Carlos pretenders to the throne.

T Alphonsine monarchists Backer of the abdicated Alfonso XIII
U Republican airmen Numerous foriegners, mainly French, fought in the Republics air arm.

Personal logo Stosstruppen Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 5:28 p.m. PST

B or D I suppose

rmaker12 Sep 2016 5:39 p.m. PST

O.

Mardaddy Inactive Member12 Sep 2016 5:57 p.m. PST

I take it this is assuming our ideology during the time we would be of an age-range for eligibility to fight?

Not being Spanish, I would not have volunteered. I would have seen it as someone else's problem a long ways from my own.

Northern Monkey12 Sep 2016 5:59 p.m. PST

My sympathies lie with the freedom loving pro-democrats of the government side, but that isn't who would be in power if the republic won. A Stalinist puppet state in Spain during the Cold War would have been a disaster for democracy in Europe.

Without hindsight I'd probably have gone with the POUM who I'd describe as socialist rather than communist. With hindsight it would have to be D to avoid a Soviet puppet. In reality I'd probably not have volunteered at all.

mad monkey 112 Sep 2016 6:02 p.m. PST

O. Got no dog in that hunt.

vtsaogames12 Sep 2016 6:04 p.m. PST

As a young lad, POUM.

These days I know too much about it and who wants a 65 year old infantryman?

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 6:05 p.m. PST

K, Abraham Lincoln Brigade

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 6:05 p.m. PST

O – like the mad monkey, that dog won't hunt

Crow Bait12 Sep 2016 6:19 p.m. PST

I would rather sit in Paris, sip coffee, and watch from a distance.

nevals12 Sep 2016 6:29 p.m. PST

I would probably serve in the same unit with Weasel, would go there to protect the Republic. And for the ladies, of course.

evilgong Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 6:35 p.m. PST

I once met some old timers from my home town who did go half way round the world and fight.

DB

Striker12 Sep 2016 8:25 p.m. PST

O

basileus66 Inactive Member12 Sep 2016 9:21 p.m. PST

Being Spanish my choices would be determined by where I was living at the time:

A. Compulsory recruitment in the Rebel army
B. Compulsory recruitment in the Loyal army
C. In the wrong end of a firing squad.

UpperCanada12 Sep 2016 9:37 p.m. PST

I or M…being Canadian…

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 9:56 p.m. PST

I think a simple yes or no question would have sufficed. My answer is no. So I guess from the long list of choices would be "O".

Martin Rapier12 Sep 2016 10:15 p.m. PST

I'd probably have sat at home shaking my head at it all.

However, in our alternate world, CNT for me. Down with all centralist statist authoritarians of the left and right.

The POUM were Trotskyists, not communists.

B6GOBOS Inactive Member12 Sep 2016 10:36 p.m. PST

I. Union Worker volunteer for the International Brigades
OR
J. Socialist for the International Brigades

Either way would be with some real interesting people here on TMP…..

bruntonboy13 Sep 2016 12:15 a.m. PST

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, if knowledge and attitudes were the same as at the time AND if I wasn't the snivelling coward I am in actuality than I would have volunteered to go and defend the legitimate government. So that would be I, J or K.

advocate13 Sep 2016 1:28 a.m. PST

I, J then. Knowing what I know now, maybe better to work politically in Britain to encourage support of the legitimate government.

Jack Burton13 Sep 2016 1:54 a.m. PST

Nationalist Army. Viva Generalissimo Franco!

KPinder13 Sep 2016 2:03 a.m. PST

O!

I remember reading about a US General who, at the start of the ACW, quit his post in Texas and was traveling to Washington. He was "detained" by CSA authorities along the way, who inquired as to his intentions. He informed them he was planning to go to Europe as he had no intention to stay and participate in that madness. They let him go.

To paraphrase Mal Reynolds, that guy was my kinda stupid.

As it happened he didn't leave. He stayed on in DC and spent the war pushing papers.

If I was Spanish at that time I surmise circumstance would decide for me. Otherwise, not on your life. Certainly not on mine.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 3:39 a.m. PST

Not a chance. I can only see me getting involved if I'd been Spanish and couldn't avoid it. A very dirty little war, even by the standards of other European civil wars.

peterx Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 3:40 a.m. PST

I certainly understand not wanting to go to Spain to fight in the Spanish Civil War. Most civil wars are very uncivil. The SCW was no exception to that rule. The Spanish authorities are still slowly digging up graves of the dead from that war.

Oh Bugger Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 4:29 a.m. PST

You missed out the Basques on the Republican side.

Hussar123 Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 5:22 a.m. PST

Stay out of civil wars. O

basileus66 Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 5:49 a.m. PST

You missed out the Basques on the Republican side.

Basque Nationalists and Socialists. Basque Carlists fought for the other side. That's a civil war for you, mister.

sebastien Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 6:09 a.m. PST

Both sides as bad each other…I would join Crow Bait in Paris!

Oh Bugger Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 6:22 a.m. PST

"Basque Nationalists and Socialists. Basque Carlists fought for the other side. That's a civil war for you, mister."

Indeed, but the Requetes are already listed and so the Carlists are catered for. Not so the other Basques. That's reading comprehension for you a mhic.

Dynaman878913 Sep 2016 6:26 a.m. PST

O – if I fight it will be for my own country and no other. What little I have read of the SCW makes it doubly so I would not fight for either side in that one.

Darkest Star Games Sponsoring Member of TMP Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 6:36 a.m. PST

z- sell arms to both sides and get rich, move to Tahiti and hope not to get invaded by the Japanese…

Pedrobear Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 6:59 a.m. PST

As a teenager, the fascists.

In my twenties, the socialists.

Now, for no one.

Personal logo Jlundberg Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 7:07 a.m. PST

Since I was career military, I would have flowed to either the Nationalist military (B,C) or stayed loyal to the government (Q)
I am surprised there was not an option for the Regulares that stayed with the Republic despite misgivings

Norman D Landings Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 7:11 a.m. PST

O. And I cannot sufficiently stress just how much 'O' is involved here.

In fact, I'm not even going down to the docks to wave you Non-O's goodbye, in case a hilarious sequence of accidents result in the boat sailing with me on board.

SCW? F that S.

peterx Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 7:23 a.m. PST

Good points from Jlundberg and Oh Bleeped text.
Jlundberg, I did forget to include the Regulares that sided with the Spanish Republic. Sorry, that was a large number of soldiers.
Oh Bleeped text, I also forgot to include the Basque Socialists, Nationalists and Requetes/Carlists.
I was thinking about the TMP members and whether they would join a side in the SCW from another country other than Spain.So, that was my reason for excluding the Basque factions and Regulares in the Spanish Republic from the list, although I did cover many other factions involved.

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 7:27 a.m. PST

O for me as well.

Fascists and Communists are two sides of the same coin and have no place in my pocket.

Dogged Inactive Member13 Sep 2016 8:02 a.m. PST

Q

Also there were Catalans fighting in separatist units. Both Basque and Catalan separatists were, from 1937, either gone or assimilated in regular units.

Grandpa of mine was a Catalan separatist, he fought in an anarchist/communist*, then regular, unit. I guess I'd had done same, but would have gone abroad after '37. Then it was just communists and fascists, bad and worst.

CNT/FAI anarchists were responsible for much murdering and looting. The rebel side used terror and murder as a common policy. In fact today Spanish authorities generally try to sideline the mass graves. Trotskyists were in fact communists, not much of a bit better than Stalinists (gosh Trotsky publicited class terrorism).

Personal logo John the Greater Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 8:05 a.m. PST

I would go for lounging around drinking red wine and speaking is short declarative sentences about women with hair like wheat.

Otherwise, it was one of those wars where you wish that both sides could have lost.

Patrick Sexton Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2016 9:44 a.m. PST

R or a Basque Separatist.

Yeah, I know…

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