"D20's vs ?" Topic

I dug out my 20th Anniversary Edition for the first time, and set up a small scenario. It's been many years since I last played any edition of TSatF. I was frankly flabbergasted at the discovery that D20's are the requirement for shooting in the current rules. I hate D20's, Reggie! They must be the worst possible "common die" choice available. Clumsy, easily misread, hard to roll in large numbers. Nothing good about them.

So, with that out of my system, has anyone revised the firing tables to work with D10's, and have they playtested the result?

I like d20s

They must be the worst possible "common die" choice available

Worse than D4's?

D20s are superb, and roll very well in large numbers, since they're more roundish than dice with fewer faces on them.

Of course, you can always just shake them up in your hands, toss them gently in the air, and let them land in front of you as well.

I believe the original rules called for d6's with a different number of figures per die roll depending on the type of firing unit. Been a while since I looked though, I use 20's myself. D4's are the worst though.

I like D20s too.
I think the D20 firing table is superb.
So there.

Just out of curiosity, how would D10s be an improvement.

And, stop abusing the poor apostrophe.

I like D20's's too!

Tom Scott!

Is it possible that the D20's you have are of the OLD type that simply had 1-10 TWICE on each die? That certainly would make them hard to read for use with current fire tables!

D20's numbered 1-20 are the presumed model for use, so I can't see what's "hard to read" about that.

Please, explain what your problem with the D20 system is.

TVAG

Oh my! I didn't intend to stir up the D20 Love Club. You all love them. I hate them. I do stand corrected on one count: D4's are the invention of the devil. And ridiculous to boot. The D20 follows on from here.

I can also take it that no one has bothered to rehabilitate the D20 mistake, either to D6 or D10 rightness. Ok then. A project added to the list. Most likely, The Men Who Would be Kings will intervene and resolve the issue.

Don't be mean to D4s. We use them in our ACW rules when units are in the deepest doo-doo. Anything but a 4 has the unit skedaddling at speed. Great fun.

D4s make excellent caltrops. :-)

A proper D20 (one with numbers from 1 to 20) are great, the old ones that had 1 to 10 printed twice and you had to fill in the colors differently to distinguish – not so great.

I like D4s as well.

For some applications, they're perfect, like for sailing games, using 2D4s for ship speeds.

My issue with the D4 is that they don't roll as well as even d6's. Some people pick one up with three fingers on the three visible faces and then spin it up into the air to throw it and I think the number on the bottom when spun has less chance of coming up. It seems the only way to achieve a guaranteed random result is to cup them in both hands and shake them. I've seen d4's that are basically a rectangle with cones on the ends and they roll when you drop them. And Mr. Tibbles is right, they make excellent caltrops for barefoot players.

Tom,

If you can find an old copy of TSATF, the 1986 version, it uses a single D6 per unit to determine how many hits per figure firing. I used this version a lot until getting enough D20s to use with the Supplement also published in 1986. I like buckets of dice and to me, it was easier and quicker to use the one D20 per fig.

TVAG, Patrick, you are showing your age! :-)
I still have some of those early D20s with the 1-10 twice and you had to use an ink pen or paint to indicate which was which. and the confusion thereof. I had just about forgot about those. back in the 70s maybe?

Sam

I still have some of the old yellow ones with black and red ink and all the corners worn off. They roll as well as a golf ball.

Any idea where we might find that old table from way back when? I only have the 20th Anniversary edition now, although I suspect I could figure the odds of X hits out of Y shots from the new tables and make my own? D+mn probabilities and statistics.*

Any chance the Sergeants 3 might generate a copy for us as an "option"?

Jeff

*What was it Disreali said about "lies, d+mn lies, and statistics"? Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) often gets the credit Stateside.

I still use the older D6 per firing unit version. I resist change.

I loved the old D6 firing tables, and stuck with them for a long, long time… but finally came around, mostly because the "one D20 per figure" approach enables a single shooter or small number of shooters to maintain some chance to hit.

You may be able to access the old D6 charts via the TSATF Yahoo Group, which unfortunately, like all Yahoo Groups, you must join first before gaining access. Here's a LINK:

link

Yes small units are a problem with the old D6, but I have used either another D6 or card draws for the undermanned. For example: I have 9 figures shooting. I roll a 1 hit for 4 figures. I get 2 hits for sure. The extra figure rolls a D6 until either a 1 (hit) comes up or 2-4 comes up (miss). I am not sure if that is the statistically valid way to do it, but it seems to work. I have tried continual card draws for a Ace, 2,3,4 to show, but sometimes that seems to take longer.

I don't hate d20s, but I agree their rondure makes them a bit of a chore to roll. They practically require dice rolling trays, and for most of my friends, magnifiers.

You could rework the stats and roll d12s instead. :-)

I suppose you could replace each d20 with a color coded coin (tens place) and d10 (ones place)….

On the total sidetrack into d4s:

I've seen d4's that are basically a rectangle with cones on the ends and they roll when you drop them.

This is the only kind I'll buy (HATE THE CALTROPS!!!!) and I only know one source for them: Crystal Caste.

I'd own a lot more of them if I could get them easily, but nobody local stocks them and the shipping increases the cost per die unacceptably for small purchases. If anyone knows another manufacturer, I'd love to know about it.

The most popular alternate d4 solution around here in recent years is the d8 labeled 1-4 (twice). I got rid of mine because I was tired of players confusing d4s and d8s.

Looking for the above image, I just discovered these:

Not as good a solution as the Crystal Caste cube, but at least they don't look like any other die in existence.

- Ix