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"Is Your Gaming Group/Club Welcoming to Women?" Topic


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08 Sep 2016 3:31 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian08 Sep 2016 3:30 p.m. PST

If a female gamer showed up at your local wargaming club or group, do you think she would feel welcome?

Ron W DuBray08 Sep 2016 3:39 p.m. PST

yes they are.

cavcrazy08 Sep 2016 4:06 p.m. PST

They always have been

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP08 Sep 2016 4:14 p.m. PST

Surely this question should be asked by some bureaucrat with a clipboard and an agenda?

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP08 Sep 2016 4:22 p.m. PST

Never been a problem.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Sep 2016 4:40 p.m. PST

Yup

grtbrt08 Sep 2016 4:50 p.m. PST

Of course she would be welcome , We have a number of female members as well.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP08 Sep 2016 4:53 p.m. PST

Yes.

Dynaman878908 Sep 2016 5:16 p.m. PST

Yes, one of the group is a woman.

Weasel08 Sep 2016 5:47 p.m. PST

my old group all started as rpg'ers where women are pretty common.

vtsaogames08 Sep 2016 6:10 p.m. PST

A woman would be welcome to command troops on our table.

That said, we haven't seen many. Years back one woman was instrumental in play testing Junta, earning the nickname Evita.

Another woman I knew designed games for SPI and was a fierce barbarian in the board game Decline and Fall.

Ottoathome08 Sep 2016 6:20 p.m. PST

Yes, we have three of them.

grtbrt08 Sep 2016 6:26 p.m. PST

I think that anyone likely to respond to this question is very accepting and welcoming of female gamers/spectators.

I think a more pertinent question would be " as a group how would you encourage more female attendees?"

Sundance08 Sep 2016 7:00 p.m. PST

My daughter has played with them, and my ex always wanted to, but schedules were often messed up and we never really got around to it 'cause the kiddoes were a little too young then.

Mitochondria08 Sep 2016 7:31 p.m. PST

They are welcome. If they "feel" welcome is an entirely different matter.

Pictors Studio08 Sep 2016 7:47 p.m. PST

Often they make up more than half the group.

"I think a more pertinent question would be " as a group how would you encourage more female attendees?""

I don't really think this is a pertinent question. You get together with your group to have fun. If you are having fun why would you change anything to attract anyone, male or female. If they like what is going on, they can join. If they don't they can stay away.

grtbrt08 Sep 2016 8:04 p.m. PST

I should have clarified, pertinent in how it relates to the original question and the perceived reasoning behind the question.
I agree with your statement though .

VVV reply09 Sep 2016 12:25 a.m. PST

We have had a few women wargamers. But I will never forget the lady who got my Old Guard killed. Taking them in column of march through a village held by the 95th rifles.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Sep 2016 12:39 a.m. PST

At the Dorchester club there are always women gamers. Locals are not allowed to attend though.

martin

foxweasel09 Sep 2016 2:37 a.m. PST

Bit of a daft question really, nobody is going to say "no, they're not welcome"

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Sep 2016 4:11 a.m. PST

Some golf clubs would!

martin

foxweasel09 Sep 2016 4:33 a.m. PST

And my Regiment (for the next 2 years)

(Phil Dutre)09 Sep 2016 6:34 a.m. PST

I hope most gaming groups do not ban women as a matter of principle.

But for some male gamers I know, the weekly wargaming gathering is their "night out with the guys". Making women part of the mix would change the social dynamic of such a setting. I guess this is not an issue in larger clubs with open membership, but it can be an issue in smaller informal gaming groups.
But in essence, this has nothing to do with wargaming as such, but more with the social setting of a group of guys wanting to meet and socialize.

Rotundo09 Sep 2016 7:12 a.m. PST

Absolutely.

Ottoathome09 Sep 2016 7:13 a.m. PST

Dear Phil

It happens.

I know of a gamer who was told by one member of a group that he should not bring his wife to a game as it "crimped his style" as it were when he was gaming. He liked to not have to "behave himself" and could "act like a guy." NOTE! the gamer was told this about games IN HIS OWN HOUSE (and the woman was his significant other and an avid gamer.

Much the same case of a different gamer and a different woman and a different complainer who was asked not to bring his wife to games for the same reason. Again the woman is an avid gamer.

I know both female gamers personally, both significant others and both complainers. The women are not shrinking violets or prudes by a longshot, but apparently profane language and vulgarity and excessive alcohol are what the complainers like.

Garryowen Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2016 7:31 a.m. PST

We have never had any at my house except one daughter who was probably about 12 or so at the time. Everything worked out just fine. She would be welcome anytime.

Tom

skinkmasterreturns09 Sep 2016 8:35 a.m. PST

I had one on my side for a game of battle valor a few months ago

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Sep 2016 5:40 p.m. PST

No. Our gaming group is welcoming to people. Specifically, people who game and people who want to hang out with people who game.

I have no clue what would make our events welcoming to women as opposed to others.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 3:58 a.m. PST

"crimped his style"


"Crimped"??? Did he mean women fluted, pleated, corrugated, ruffled, furrowed, grooved, ridged, creased, wrinkled, crinkled, crumpled, puckered, or gathered his "style"*

Ottoathome: throw the bum out. He may have meant "cramped" but apart from misogyny, he clearly suffers from illiteracy

* God (or Ottoathome): please don't tell me what this illiterate means by "style". I shudder at any further revelations (or "renovations" as your pal probably calls them)

alien BLOODY HELL surfer12 Sep 2016 5:04 a.m. PST

As long as they don't want to be in the infantry we are!

Old Contemptibles Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 2:23 p.m. PST

Yes and we have had one or two. I think this is an instance where you should break this down as historical v. the other gaming genres. I have notice that women are more attracted to RPG, SF and Fantasy gaming.

I see some young women at the local game stores playing RPG but it has been very rare that women of any age are participating in historical wargaming.

This is all based on my decades of observation. Some real data on this is needed. How many women are in the historical part of the hobby and why others are not?

Just curious as to those clubs or groups who have a good number of women participating, how many are non-historical groups/clubs? How does it compare to the UK?

Personal logo DWilliams Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 2:57 p.m. PST

We're all ready for our first female member whenever she knocks on the basement door!

Weasel12 Sep 2016 3:13 p.m. PST

Rallynow – from my purely personal anecdotal experience from various conventions on two coasts and two continents:

Roleplayers and board games 40% or so?

Card games and scifi/fantasy games 20%?

Historicals 5% at most.

But that's pulling numbers out of my rear end. Adjust up a bit in Scandinavia and down a bit in the US.

Old Contemptibles Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2016 10:31 p.m. PST

You are close to what I am thinking.

Ottoathome14 Sep 2016 6:55 a.m. PST

Dear Ochoin

He's NOT a pal of mine and not in my group. He is or was in a friends group. The friend left and disinvited him because of his boorish behavior. After all, telling one what he wanted you to do in your own house was rather presumptuous.

What he considered "crimping" was he couldn't use foul language, smoke, drink or tell dirty jokes with women around, but also that he didn't like them playing in a game because he felt he couldn't be as bloodthirsty and competitive as he liked to be.

This is important to some gamers and is not a lone case. I have seen this at games at game stores where a group doesn't want female gamers to play because it gets in the way of their miniature "macho-ness".

Such people are never invited to my games.

Perhaps the worst case PERSONALLY I had was a very long time good friend who I eventually parted company with because of arguments over style, religion, and politics, but one salient point was the way he treated his own daughter. His late-in life (3rd wife's)daughter was a bright chipper, lovely 12 year old who used to play in his games all the time, but who he increasingly did not want her to play in. He would yell at her and tell her to go inside and not play and she dearly wanted to, because kids when they're that age dearly want to do what the adults do. I remonstrated with him several times saying ""J" stop, let her play, there's going to come a time soon when she's going to grow up and not going to want to have anything to do with your games and your fat old fart friends, and you're going to treasure the memories of her having fun and laughing and having a good time." He didn't want here around because he wanted to drink, smoke, swear, and be a bully and be argumentative. So he would push her out and sometimes she would lave the room in tears, because she couldn't understand why he didn't want her around. He was really bad with her and we all felt so sorry for her. She was fun to play with and everyone made much of her." Well his son (by wife #1) felt the same way and always felt bad about it. Now that son has a 9 year old daughter of his own who games and isn't into painting yet, but soon will be.

I believe that this attitude is in many cases more guilt and shame as to their inner nature which they do not with females to see because they are behaving as they ought not, rather than misogyny. I find it happens much more in highly competitive gamers than those who are not. Being completely non-competitive myself I can't understand it.

In another case I knew of who was in my group, he didn't like the group bending over backwards or going easy on girls or young people, cutting them a break because of their youth or inexperience. He kept it controlled but eventually he self-selected himself out of the group and we did not miss him.

By the way, the "son" of the former friend above first was involved in miniature when he attended a game at my house when he was 9. now he's 48 and has a 9 year old of his own. Another friends 10 year old started out gaming again in my group and now he's 24 or something and still an avid gamer, but does salsa dancing (whatever that is) too.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2016 11:58 a.m. PST

He's NOT a pal of mine

I'm glad you've thrown him out of your group. Sounds a right misogynist.

BTW here's a rather good article. I think the salient point is "unconscious" treatment. Lots & lots of men don't even realise & that's why they don't recognise such behaviour in themselves. And others.

link


Glad to help you out with "salsa dancer". It's dancing. With a Latin influence. Who'd a thought?

picture

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Sep 2016 4:00 p.m. PST

Sounds a right misogynist.

Well, if he thinks all women and only women would be offended or put off by his behaviour, then he probably does have a couple of thinks coming …

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