Help support TMP


"Brigadier-General: An official rank in Britain?" Topic


12 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Painting Guides Message Board

Back to the Napoleonic Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Napoleonic

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Napoleon's Battles


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

The Amazing Worlds of Grenadier

The fascinating history of one of the hobby's major manufacturers.


Featured Profile Article

First Look: Barrage's 28mm Roads

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian takes a look at flexible roads made from long-lasting flexible resin.


1,161 hits since 5 Sep 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

huevans01105 Sep 2016 9:58 a.m. PST

Deciding how to paint up command figures for the Peninsula. I vaguely remember reading (?) that Brigadier-General did not then exist as an official rank. Can someone confirm that?

The Osprey provides some details of a brigadier's uniform and the arrangement of buttons, but it could be that brigadier was an "appointment" given to a colonel and not a permanent rank.

If so, would the colonel re-uniform himself? Or would he wear his regimentals while leading his brigade?

I am also wondering what % of brigades in the Peninsula were commanded by colonels and what % by generals. None of my books breaks this down, simply giving the last name of the brigade commander without rank.

Almost all of the Portuguese brigades were commanded by British officers. I am assuming that these gentlemen would be "casual" about their Portuguese uniforms and might often wear British uniform, mix-and-match or civvies, as they pleased.

M C MonkeyDew05 Sep 2016 10:28 a.m. PST

The Horse Guards had a rank of "Brigadier" which was not a Brigadier General. Could the picture you saw have been of that rank.

You are correct in that Brigadier General was not a rank at the time, rather a position held by the senior Colonel or other officer appointed for that purpose by higher up.

If you Google the name of a Brigadier and the date of the OOB to which you refer and you should be able to find out who they were and which organization they belonged to.

Hope that helps.

Bob

EDIT: Oh there was no set uniform for a Brigadier General so far as I know. Officers were very aware of their place in the seniority system so there would seldom be any doubt if the principles had met face to face at least once during the campaign.

huevans01105 Sep 2016 10:41 a.m. PST

Thanks, MCMD. It wasn't a picture, it was a verbal description of button arrangements in the Osprey.

Winston Smith05 Sep 2016 10:42 a.m. PST

Would he even wear a Portuguese uniform? His tailor is in London, after all.

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP05 Sep 2016 11:06 a.m. PST

The next rank after full colonel at the time of the Peninsular War was major general. As has already been stated, 'brigadier' was used for a brigade commander as a post not a rank as he could be a colonel or a major general (or indeed a lieutenant colonel if casualties were bad). Therefore anyone under general rank would have been in regimentals. It is noteworthy that this was the only army rank for officers that directly referenced the level of command.

42flanker05 Sep 2016 11:33 a.m. PST

As far as the uniform worn by those in command of Portuguese formations was concerned, you would probably have to take it case by case, assuming evidence was available.

Brigades were meant to be commanded by Major generals, but sometimes, as Artilleryman has said, there was a shortage of officers available, willing or suitable.

It's a little earlier than the Peninsula, but that is how young Lieut. Col. Hon. Arthur Wesley ended up briefly in command of the Third Brigade in Holland at the time of the battle of Boxtel in September 1794.

He was succeeded by a more senior lieutenant colonel. A major general, Nisbet Balfour, took command briefly in October but left for home again in December, at which point the senior lieut. colonel took over again. Nonetheless, Third Brigade continued to be referred to as Balfour's till it was evacuated to England in April 1795.

rmaker05 Sep 2016 12:15 p.m. PST

Brigadier was the military equivalent of the naval Commodore; a temporary appointment. This was true in most European armies of the era, AFAIK, only the French (and perhaps their puppet armies) had general de brigade as a real rank.

The 1813 Prussians were so strapped for officers that infantry brigades (not to be confused with the numbered Brigades which were the equivalent of Divisions) were often commanded by Majors and in at least one case by a Captain!

huevans01105 Sep 2016 1:07 p.m. PST

Would he even wear a Portuguese uniform? His tailor is in London, after all.

There is actually a useful account in "Uniforms of the Peninsular War", by Phillip Haythornwaite and Michael Chappell. Plate 20a features a Portuguese staff officer – actually a Brit, Wm. Warre. Warre was AdC to Beresford and was gazetted a major in the Portuguese army. He ordered his uniforms from his tailor in London (of course, old chap!) based "loosely" on the Portuguese regs.

Warre sometimes wore Portuguese staff uniform and sometimes his British AdC uniform. Beresford was apparently in civvies at Salamanca.

huevans01105 Sep 2016 1:09 p.m. PST

I am guessing that a British brigadier in a Portuguese brigade would have a Portuguese rank of colonel or general da brigada. He may or may not have bothered to wear Portuguese uniform, I guess.

M C MonkeyDew05 Sep 2016 8:45 p.m. PST

For an idea of how this appointment worked in practice, here is a quick look at the oob for Albuera. Five British infantry brigades. One led by a Major General, four of them led by Lt. Col.s, and one heavy cavalry brigade led by a Col.

The Portuguese brigades are listed as being led by Brigadiers.

This is from Guy Dempsey's ALBUERA. Note that he refers to James Kemmis, commander of the 4th Divison's 1st Brigade as "Brigadier " but this is an error. Kemmis was a Lt. Colonel at the time.

Bob

huevans01106 Sep 2016 5:31 a.m. PST

Yes, I checked out the Salamanca OOB and it was pretty much the same.

It appears that the independent Portuguese brigades tended to be led by brigadiers – which WAS an actual Portuguese army rank. So those officers would have been gazetted in the Portuguese army at that rank. The Portuguese army Osprey shows the uniform.

Not sure if they would revert to Colonel when reposted to a British formation. I guess they would have to.

GarryWills18 Sep 2016 3:29 p.m. PST

Despite brigadier general not being a substantive rank, there appears to have been a uniform for them, according to the commentary with plate c of the Hamilton Smith uniform plates (Wellington's Army), this dated to 1804. Furthermore Barthorp's Wellingtons Generals Plate B, shows Crauford so attired.

Whether the uniform was actually worn I suppose is another matter.

Secondly in their book on the British military system, Park & Nafziger, while remarking on the temporary nature of the appointment for a "particular service", mentioned that "once given the rank remained in effect even though the service was completed." Unfortunately no examples are given or source.

Regards

Garry

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.