"Why not plastic in 15mm?" Topic

Is it possible to do 15mm figures in plastic? Wouldn't they be cheaper?

I have often said that a box of line infantry for the major nations would be a great seller.

Certainly possible. It's done for WWII, after all. Cheaper depends. The capital investment in polystyrene molds is eye-watering. You'd have to sell a lot of them to sell them cheap.

And I'm not sure the market is there. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me the trend has been away from 15-25mm toward mass battles in 3-10mm on one end, and toward more visible 28mm+ the other way. I'm seeing lots of 28mm plastic, 40mm metals sometimes and much fuller lines of 54mm soft plastics. Before I sank the price of a car in 15mm Napoleonic molds, I'd want a much better feel for the market in 15mm metals.

I don't see the market, either. If someone wants cheap plastic Napoleonics, it seems like they would just get 1/72 plastics instead.

15mm metal soldiers just aren't that expensive, even if you buy all Battle Honors, AB, or Eureka.

Lucius "15mm metal soldiers just aren't that expensive, even if you buy all Battle Honors, AB, or Eureka."

I envy you your purse sir.

I think 15mm is here to stay. Not as exciting as 28mm but I just don't see anything but skirmish at 28mm and 6mm or smaller might as well be played with cardboard counters.

I have often written if there were plastic 15mm I would buy a French army. ( I have only Prussians, Russians, British and Bavarian)

Who would the manufacturer consider to be their audience to get the volume sales that they need. Would they produce at standard 15mm or the newer tendency towards 18mm.

They would probably have to limit the sprues to something basic like march poses and so if they do not already make lead figures, they might have to align themselves to a big player in the lead business to ensure they were tied into the best and widest figure support possible.

The traditional napoleonics market might already be saturated, with a buyer just getting one or two boxes to pad out their forces. What it probably needs is someone like Battlefront (Flames of War) to get involved and 'invent' the napoleonics scene for the huge number of players (especially new war gamers) that they brought into the Flames of War camp. In this regard, there is probably plenty of untapped market and so the success of a 15mm plastic venture might best lay with someone who has the organisation to pump money in and are successful in marketing. – such is our fickle world!

The main thing that a 15mm plastics manufacturer would be up against is that 28mm plastics have a head start and they do seem to have captured a new area of the market.

Bonjour,

Greetings from the centre of France.

Would not 15mm plastics be even more fragile than 28mm?

I'm not a fan of plastics, not just because of bias, but I feel that the better metal figures will long outlast the plastic alternatives. I hate broken bayonets and flaking paint!

As to Mick saying "6mm or smaller might as well be played with cardboard counters" I couldn't agree more but thought that we weren't allowed to say that!

Cheers,

Paul

If they matched Old Glory or AB/Battle Honours I would buy an entire French army to go alongside my metal French Allies in the Grande Armee of 1812

I like the idea but the start up cost may not be business worthy, Kickstarter may be??

I'd go with 15mm plastics even though my armies are almost complete, if:

a) size and style was compatible with the new 18mm ranges from AB, Bluemoon etc

b) the cost was no more than what I'd pay for metal

c) the quality was as good, if not better, than existing ranges

d) avoid the problem 1/72 plastics have of having figures that are useless, and therefore having to buy several boxes to get a whole unit in marching pose.

but the main issue is, as with every new range of napoleonics; do you produce the rank and file of the major powers that are already available, and probably already in people collections, or do you take a risk and produce minor countries?

As was said before, I think we would need a major player like Battlefront to relaunch the period with the backing of some serious marketing to get new players (and therefore new buyers) before taking a risk on plastics.

Here's one problem: do you go it alone and make just the best sellers (line infantry marching, but no sappers; French but no Swedes)? In which case many will hold off until they can get everything they want (so you need to do some stuff in metal to fill in teh gaps).

Why would a metal maker team up? The line infantry subsidizes everything else. You think you ever make your money back on sappers and generals? Maybe, but it takes years, while you can make money back on line in months.

And now you want to work with someone who will take away your most profitable sales?

Tough nut to crack, especially since it's not a huge skirmish era, especially in 15mm. So you lose everyone who buys a couple boxes to do Sharpe.

One major difference with WW2: for WW2 you can put a whole "army" in a box. Say, one US infantry company. Officers, NCOs, bazooka men etc. After that you can just add a tank here or there as you wish. You don't have the three hundred troop type problem. With Napoleonics you really need infantry AND cavalry AND artillery. So does a starter army require 3 boxes at least?

"As to Mick saying "6mm or smaller might as well be played with cardboard counters" I couldn't agree more but thought that we weren't allowed to say that!"

Of course you are – but only if you wish to publicly parade your own ignorance…

Hi Baccus,

I normally just get beaten-up about being a plastic sceptic so being told-off about being sceptical about the true value of "6mm and sub" is new ground for me!

I shall apologise and beat a hasty withdrawal.

Where can I get some 6mm white flags from?

Cheers,

Paul

I would say go for 10mm instead of 15mm. Enough detail to challenge 15mm and far better detail than 6mm. Small enough to buy brigade or maybe division boxes. Starter corps w all arms represented?

Paul:

Send me your address. I have some extras

If plastic 28mm are sold at approximately half the price of the metal equivalent a similar equation would put the current price of an 18mm plastic figure around the £0.30 GBP mark maximum. Say 40 figures per box gives a price tag of £12.00 GBP a box, maximum. Sounds feasible but as mentioned wouldn't they be very delicate/too delicate?

I guess if it were currently worth doing wouldn't somebody be doing it already?

Since the Perrys have 3 ups for 28mm models could they have tools made to produce those figures at other sizes or would the issue of scale and delicacy rule that out?

The other issue is that there are quite a lot of decent 15/18mm ranges out there and one outstanding range in AB so any plastic figure has quite a lot of competition and for many who steadily buy 15/18mm figures the issue often isn't cost but the time they take to paint so being able to do afford hundreds at a time over dozens at time isn;t such a great draw, or is it?

I will not be buying plastic.
Its all about the metal!
My airfix days are looooooong gone.
Thank you very much!

MG

If you are that cheap perhaps you should look into another hobby.
At 15s it does not make sense when they only cost 35 to 70 cents for infantry.
The cost is in the painting!
At 28s and up the cost does make a big bite and the demand is there to support that technology/mfg.

Once again- I hope they do not go there because I will not buy plastic!

MG

There is already a yardstick for potential costs as Battleground and Plastic Soldier already do WWII plastic infantry. I think it is around 144 figures for 20 quid. The hard plastic figures are quite robust.

Apparently, to rescale figures, some parts need re-doing. For example if a Perry 28mm napoleonics soldier was just simply reduced in size, the rifle or bayonet (or whatever, a spear say) may become too small to withstand the rigours of manufacture / transport / gaming etc.

I like plastics for their weight reduction and some of the nice sharp detail that modern sculptors are able to get.

Marshal Greg, strong opinions there, before determining what hobbies people should or should not have, give some thought to the international audience that follow these boards with their massively different financial situations..

Your right normsmith regarding international audience.
I was a bit insensitive by not acknowledging that fact in my reply.
The OP is from the US so I found it a little bent coming from here and thus plodding on.
and putting it in this perspective…

for same cost
100 figs in plastic with most breaking guns etc and paint chip potential with 25 hrs investment in painting over 3 mo period saving money period for purchase. Then repainting x amount in Y future and cost for that.
vs
75 metal figures with less breakage and essential no paint chip with with 18 hrs investment in painting over a 4 mo period saving money for the purchase.

really makes me question the cost statement for 15s anyhow!

Then add to fact that some mfg going to try to force the envelope of the mfg process to make that detail with a plastic process….ouch!
- sorry WWII success does not equal Nap success (with Voltgeurs with tall plumes, troops with swords and the long thin muskets etc).

It's not a good direction and "cost nor weight" should not be the driver, as it is in 28s on up.

SO my strong opinion to protect my hobby is warrantied.

My materials science background is getting the better part of me here…I pray it does not go there or at least the lines I need for my collection.

MG

Just curious about the several comments about paint chipping and plastic. And also about fragility.

I have a LOT of PSC 15mm plastics. I have had no paint chipping. And I have found them just as robust (exception -- the first set of soviet infantry -- weapons were too close to scale. later ranges have more robust weapons).

To me, the benefit of plastic IS their robustness (no bent weapons) and their ability to hold paint better than metal.

I would for sure buy plastic 15/18mm Napoleonic figures.
Go ahead, make them!

Do we "need" them? of course not, but thats not what this hobby is about. Its about collecting and passion. Need has nothing to do with it. Its all about want;)
the more options the more fun I say!

Cheers!
Dr J

Nick Bowler
From you comment I would guess you do not do Napoleonics
Look at your WWII troops then look at Napoleonics such as AB , BM or OlD Old Glory and help me understand how they would be equivalent in paint chip protection when the feature sizes are greatly different with bayonets, swords, long tall plumes etc etc.
And a lot of folks prefer these to be closer to scale.
Plastics with greatly out of scale features, to make them robust is a second reason why I will not buy such figures.
There is a reason my collect has many mfg ( of metal figs) not included just for that reason.

Not a good idea-pls do not go plastic!

MG

Actually, I do do a lot of Napoleonics.

I am still curious why you are worried about paint chips -- what do you use as your primer? I have found that paint chipping is more to do with primer than anything else!

As to oversized weapons, metal figs have oversized weapons as well. The problem is wargamer fat fingers and the molding process, not what is used to make the figures.

I think the light weight.of plastics makes them less susceptible to damage from drops or topples into other figs. Broken weapons are easier to fix with model cement then epoxy on metal: you have real bonding at the join. Paint sticks fine

What is the cost of white metal per figure?

Cost of pewter is about $1.31 USD per ounce.

Battle Honors 15mm prussian infantry 130 figures / 7 oz.

about 20 figures per oz.

About 6 – 8 cents per figure.

Not much of a raw material savings.

Have to agree with Nick and Mick above: Apart from the price point, which remains to be determined for Napoleonics, the lighter weight of plastic figures is an advantage in accidents, as well as for transport and storage for some people.
Paint chipping? The last time I saw that was on some Airfix figures I painted forty years ago, without priming them first (because I didn't know any better). Today's hard polystyrene takes paint just as well as metal.

Bought plastic in 28MM and I found them too brittle . Also to time consuming ( glue parts, etc.) . No thanks. I will stick to the metal as they may be more pricey but they are more durable and in my opinion are easier to paint and look a lot better.