"Zap Ca and super glues...shelf life? Confused!" Topic

Hello all.

So chalk this one up as, "how did I never know this!"

Sounds weird, 20 years of building and painting miniatures, and somehow this had never been an issue for me before now.

In 2012, I stocked up on a couple bottles of Zap Ca, they were unopened until mid-2013, and I used about a quarter of one bottle on a bunch of plastic Star Wars kits. Kits assembled beautifully. No problem. The rest of it, both opened and unopened got stored until about mid-2015. All the bottles are still perfectly liquid, no solidifying and no discoloration.

So I'm about to go into a big project of several Warhammer armies and several historical armies – and I happened to read on a model railroading forum that Zap Ca, even UNOPENED, has a shelf life of not more than a year, even shorter once opened.

It seems the only way to prolong life of Zap Ca if you don't use it up in time, is to refrigerate it. I thought refrigeration was a way of EXTENDING life, but not necessary for keeping the glue viable!

So basically a railroad modelling guy from one of the forums said, oh yeah throw out all your Zap Ca, it's way too old, it won't work any more. Buy new bottles, date them, and refrigerate them from day one!

Well, it's not a HUGE thing, I mean the stuff is only about $6.00 USD or so a bottle, and it goes a long way. So replacing it with new stuff isn't a huge issue.

BUT, my question to you all is – is this REALLY an issue? You can't leave Zap Ca, even unopened bottles for a couple years without it expiring??? I seem to remember further back when I used Zap Ca that I never refrigerated it, and it never seemed to expire where it would no longer work! Maybe because at that time I was buying it and using it up faster so expiration wasn't an issue. But I still never refrigerated it – ever!

Good for the day you buy, or open them, in my experience.

Now, I'm experimenting with the cheap dollar store micro-tubes, for tacking stuff into place, before using epoxy to more securely glue things.

I've heard refrigerating them may help, but don't know for sure if that works, or not.

I refrigerate and find it greatly extends the shelf life. I keep it in a sealed mason jar in the fridge.

It will go bad. Not sure how long it takes but over a year it's probably suspect.

And there is the variable of how old the stock is when you buy it.
I've had some bottles die over the years, and others that have lasted for ages.
It's a dice roll.

As miniMo says, a lot defends on how the tube you buy has been stored BEFORE you buy it – if its been stored in a sauna it will go off pretty quick but if it has been stored in a fridge with a de-humidifier (as 'professional' suppliers store it – 100ml bottles of Loctite 304 anyone?) it will last quite well.

Yes, store it in a small glass jar in the fridge, put a few silica jell packets in too (after drying them out in the oven on low for a few hours first). Remember to let the tube come up to room temperature before trying to stick things together, otherwise you will be holding it in place for a few minutes before it takes hold (usually of your fingers too – DAMHIK)

I believe CA is also photosensitive, so if your bottles are stored in direct sunlight it will speed the deterioration of the CA in the tube/bottle.

I used to use Filla glue, which was excellent, but have recently switched to the generic microtubes of CA from the pond store. I decant them into polyethylene dropper pots from 4D model shop or Antenocitis. Works a treat.

My experience is that direct light and heat does really affect the quality of CA. Storing it in the refrigerator does seem to help the shelf life. Even then it does seem to be a craps shoot.

I have found, that once opened, high humidity is the fastest killer of CA. I use the medium viscosity glue almost exclusively, and used to buy the 2 oz bottles, thinking I was saving money. But I could never get close to half-way through a bottle before it would not cure, or even harden in the bottle. I live in SW Florida, where the humidity is very high most of the year. (We consider 80% to be low humidity.) When you remember that water is a natural accelerant of CA, it makes sense. So now I just buy the 1/2 oz bottles, and don't worry about it.

Baranovich, just curious as to why you would use CA to assemble plastic kits? Styrene cement is more convenient, and makes a stronger bond.

Don

Back in my industrial glue "expert" days, we bought "superglue" in quantities to put assembled parts in 500,000 cars per year. That was one project.
The (very large) tubes were never exposed to air, and were sealed to the applicators.
Strict instructions were given about refrigerating yet unused tubes, and the short shelf lives were strictly followed per instructions of the automotive customer.
Stock rotation was "just in time".

Having said that, I often wonder what the assembly life was on those parts. I have seen in my hobby how brittle CA assemblies are. And with automobiles exposed to all kind of humidity and environmental extremes.
Probably sonic welding would have been a better choice.

But to answer the OP, yes. Shelf life matters. But try them anyway. If they work they work. You are simply not bound by ISO or QS standards on your modeling work.
That's why I would rather buy small tubes as I need them, than large bottles at a cheaper price by volume. All CA glues are vulnerable once opened, some more than others.

Great advice everybody, thank you very much! I'm feeling very ignorant at the moment, being a 20-year veteran of this hobby!

@HobbyDr,

Actually I do use primarily plastic glue (Testors Cement) for the vast majority of my plastics, which my Warhammer armies are 90% made of. And actually, I use glues like Gorilla Glue and Liquid Nails perfect glue for assembling resin kits like buildings, and for attaching metal figures to MDF bases, etc. CA glue for me is more just there as an additional adhesive if it's needed for some special purpose.

But of course that's probably one of the worst ways to use it, since it's going to be stored for extended periods. And given its short life and sporadic effectiveness, it defeats the whole purpose to buy it and not use it fast enough. Figure I'll just get one of the smallest bottles and refrigerate it from the get-go and see how long it remains viable.

I think over the years I kind of became fixated on the idea that you absolutely NEEDED to use Ca glue in modeling, because of its strong, legendary bonds. But looking back over the past year, every terrain kit I've made has been with plastic glue, and other general type all-purpose adhesives. In fact I don't think I've used Ca Glue for anything in the past year!

And ironically, as Winston Smith said above, I have found that a good number of plastics that I've done with Ca glue to actually have very weak bonds. I've had parts simply detach after a certain amount of time. Seems like Ca can bond like iron at times, but that it also creates a brittle bond that can be snapped without a great deal of strength.

The ironic thing about CA bonding is that ambient moisture catalyzes the polymerization of the adhesive.
And then the bond itself is susceptible to water. The quickest way to break the bond is to put the two substrates in hot to warm water.
Or the water in the atmosphere can do that over time.