"Position of Union Infantry flags" Topic

Hi,
Was there an official position for the Regt and Old Glory in a Regt ie as you face the unit which would be on your left and which on your Right,and was this position regulation or as situation demanded ?
Cheers G

If you are in line with the regiment, that is facing the enemy, then the National Flag has the post of honor on the right. The regimental flag is on the left.

Cleburne1863 has it right. The National flag is ALWAYS posted to the right of any other colors.

Any particular reason the right side is the post of honor? Just tradition?

For some reason, being on the right has been the post of honor for millennia. Note how the best hoplites traditionally were posted on the right of the line (I have heard several reasons for this, but that is for another thread).

One tiny note on flag placement, the color party was posted at the center of the regiment, with the National colors to the right of the regimental (or state, in some cases) colors.

French Napoleonics, the elite company of the regiment was always on the right of the line. They deployed from right to left by regimental number also. It would be interesting to know how it all started. But now, it just is.

Tom

Same with flags in halls: on the dais/podium--speakers right; on the floor--audience's right.

Any particular reason the right side is the post of honor? Just tradition?

You hold your sword in your right hand. Your shield is on your left arm. The rightmost warrior in the line leads the attack. He's exposed, he has no comrade on his right to shield him.

In 18th century European armies, the second post of honor was the extreme left of the line, not second from right.

I was wondering if it was the old sword and shield…

I have heard the sword & shield explanation.

A quick note on the color guard. In a federal 10-company battalion/regiment the color guard actually has 12 men. There are two sergeants and 10 corporals. The colors are in the middle of the 1st rank with a corporal to either side. Behind them are two ranks of 4 corporals each.

In the regular regiments, where there were 6-company battalions, the 1st battalion carried the national colors with a 9-man color guard consisting of 1 sergeant and 8 corporals. Colors in the 1st rank with a corporal to either side, and 2 ranks of 3 corporals each behind them. In the 2nd battalion, it was the same, but with the regimental color instead of the national color.

Confederate units followed the very same practice for either 2 or single colors.

The whole business of the position on the right being the post of honor affected a lot more than just where the flag went. In the CW armies the posting of the companies in the line was determined by the seniority of the captains. The senior-most was the 1st company on the right of the line. The next most senior was the 10th company on the left of the line. The 3rd most senior was the color company (typically the 5th company in a ten-company battalion). After that I forget the exact positions, but it was all, described in the regulations.

Did the change that every time a captain got wounded, sick, killed, promoted, etc.?

Sorry to wander off topic but Scott, I am having the same problem with your statement that Don is. I can imagine the regimental discussion the night before the battle as the colonel has to decide who is actually going to be with the troops the next day and who has seniority over who.

Afraid Scott's on the money.

Yes, it sounds complicated but this internal structure along with the concept of "right of the line" goes way, way back!

For example Napoleonic units worked on the same principal. British Infantry that had the same company layout did exactly the same thing.

As did Roman Legions come to that!

In fact Brigades were supposed to work on exactly the same manner with (facing the enemy) Senior Regiment (not commander, on the right) next most senior on the left and then junior in the middle – if there were just three Regiments – other wise they alternated too.

It was also repeated at Division level with the Senior Brigade Commander on the Right and the next senior Brigade on the left.

I think you may find that Captains getting themselves shot wasn't a problem, people just got moved to the appropriate company.

Company A was always the Senior one and the next senior officer available got shifted prior to the next battle. If you ran out of Captains the most Senior Lt got an up grade in position but not rank. In the Peninsular War where the official Army List had more sway than the Civil War, due to the larger level of seniority via of dates of Commissions in the regular army (as opposed to all the complication of Brevet Rank and Volunteer status) this caused no end of fun!

You might find an officer of any rank up to and including a Major General commanding on the Right of the Line one day and then being shifted back to his old post when a senior replacement arrived from England.

The added complication that doesn't get enough attention is Equalisation. Whereby prior to an engagement the number of men per company would be made, as close as possible, the same. This is where the seniority would have been sorted as part of ensuring there were commanders for each company.

This was essential for drill and fire control but it did mean you could start a fresh battle with a company commander you hadn't served directly under before and 15 – 20 guys you hardly knew, compared to your usual group. In fact this could be done, not only post/pre battle but during one. There's documented statements by Colonels in the OR of them doing so in lulls in the fighting. That's how important keeping companies the same was.

This transfer wasn't supposed to be permanent, Admin status of the parent company still held for supply status etc but I expect it kinda drifted as these things will.

A lot of day to day stuff went on that doesn't qualify for print amid the glory!

I agree that this sounds overly complicated and I suspect that reorganizing the battalion based on the seniority of the captains may have not been strictly adhered to in the field (or might have just been put off until things quieted down for a while). A lot probably depended on the style of the colonel.

OTOH, I do know that there was a real difference between administrative organization and tactical organization. This was especially true with the Union regiments who were often very understrength. Some regiments went into action with scarcely more than 100 men and the idea of fielding ten 10-man companies was rather ludicrous. So often they consolidated their companies for drill and combat. The 61st New York, for example only had 114 men at Gettysburg so they took the field with only 3 companies. However, all ten companies were still on the books for administrative purposes.

So as far as the business of captain's seniority and position in the line goes, who knows?

Scott,

I'd of thought, on a pragmatic level, having even companies took priority over company CO seniority.

Given we know that equalisation was conducted on the fly during some battles, my guess is that Colonel Whatshisname would be more concerned with getting numbers squared away and a CO in place, than adhering to the letter of the law.

On a practical level, it must have been easier for a Civil War Regimental CO to keep track of who had been with the unit the longest, than is Napoleonic Brit counterpart having to account for position on the Army List and the wonders of purchased commissions.

It is fascinating how far back these simple methods go. Achilles' troops are placed on the right of the Greek line at Troy in the Iliad for the same reason they were in the Civil War: The directing company or battalion or brigade for the battleline. You wanted your senior officers and troops, the most experienced positioned at the most important point: the steering wheel and gas pedal for the entire line. Even Civil War artillery batteries followed the same form, senior captain or lieutenant on the right…as the directing section.

It was also because lines had a tendency to drift to the right, so it required experience to fight that tendency.

So, it was an honor to be chosen for the post of honor. When there was no clear 'best', you could have arguments about who received the honor. At Culloden, the Scots had a hours' long argument over who should be on the right.

Often the number of a Napoleonic regiment would determine it's seniority/level of experience. The assumption being that a lower numbered regiment had been around longer.

In a small way it still holds true today.

Not with swapping people around within an organization (other than to fill vacancies). However if protocol is followed the senior officer of a group of officers is on the right of that group, and the reason given is the sword arm being on the right and your subordinates to protect the unarmed left side.

and the reason given is the sword arm being on the right and your subordinates to protect the unarmed left side.

Interesting how the reasons change, but the protocol remains the same.

Thanks for all the discussion,still meant I have had to change a lot of my Flags,yes I know in the heat of battle the could,would get swapped around BUT !!!!!
G

Never-the-less….. I put the flag stand at the end of a multi-stand regiment. Then I know where one unit starts and the other begins. But I have started taking the drummers out of the command stand and putting them as a separate stand behind the line of battle or at the head of a column. They are used to mark a unit as having higher morale.

The placement of companies within a Federal Regiment varied. A regt. at full strength would aline the companies as:
A-D-F-H-(COLOR PARTY)C-G-E-B. This alinement was not written in stone, as regiments strengths dropped commanders would reline the order to meet needs. Also at the time of the war the position of the flags was not all that defined. Much of what we takes as Flag rules came into being in 1912.
Not all "stars and strips'' carried by Federal troops during the war were National colors. Those that had their state seal in the center of the Union were actually state flags. It was the war that reduced the position of the state and elevated the Federal government. Before the war it was, "the United States of America are ---", after the war it was, "the United States of America is ---"