"battalion guns in the GNW" Topic

I'm curious to know if battalion guns were used in the Great Northern War?

Specifically for the Saxons but also in general.

Thanks for any information offered.

Only armies that I have not included battalion guns for are: Saxons and Polish. All the other armies have them.

Definitely the swedes had them! Artillerie a la Suedois, means Swedish style guns= battalion guns. Light guns accompanying the infantry. Swedish development from Gustavus Adolphus' time.

I've always thought that the Swedish light gun was just that. a light easily moveable gun. I was not under the impresion that these were attached to battalions within the infantry organisation in the same manner that other nationalities (such as the English, Danes, or Dutch for example) where the guns were crewed by a combination of trained artillery crew and "volunteers" from the infantry.
It's always difficult to tell when looking at orders of battle because most give the number of guns within an army and this often includes the light and field pieces being combined.
If they were used could someone cite source and knowledge please?

I don't find any reference to battalion guns in my great northern war compendium. Ofte that artillery often was left behind and mostly saw action during sieges.

It also said light field guns could at least part way follow battalions.
I can't remember any mention of field guns taking part in infantry attacks in any of the major battles.

Because of the tactics used by the Swedish Army of rapid advance and closure to melee it is highly doubtful they had battalion guns. They did have light artillery that was very occasionally used, and heavier artillery that was used against villages and hard defenses.

The Russians otoh have always been fond of artillery, and in this period frequently had field redoubts with guns as part of the line of battle. The possibility of the use of battalion guns to stiffen the resolve of units, and their propensity for the defense, rather than maneuver, coupled with troops of highly variable quality and rather static tactics with their infantry, would argue that, at least early in the GNW, a few battalion guns might be found.

The Saxon army was typical in structure and tactics to most early 18th century armies, but there is no indication of the use of battalion guns. It was small, constantly rebuilding and retraining, and probably had little use for the added cost of battalion guns. What artillery they did have was concentrated into a large battery to their front.

Kling's GNW Compendium is silent on this matter. Battalion guns in field use had declined noticeably in the later 17th and early 18th century. They were often the Colonel's prestige piece for the parade ground as much or more than in the field.

In the WSS, there is documentation that early in the period a number of units in the various armies retained these guns, but they seemed to fall by the wayside over the next 10 years or so, as the Dutch/ English drill gained new adherents, and artillery was more regularized in all armies.

I suspect more of them appear on tabletops than they did in battlefields during this period. They are a fun concept. In my rules I give them a very minor positive effect on attack and defense, and a drag on movement of the unit.

During the GNW? Russia increased the number of battalion guns from 2 to 4.
So if you want lots of small guns, Russia is your best bet.

Wouldn't surprise me. GF. However, I would be careful to distinguish light batteries assigned to regimental command (Regimental Guns) from true battalion guns. After Narva, the Russian Army reorganized and modernized with many changes, including an even greater emphasis on artillery.

One of those changes were light guns as small batteries assigned to regimental command, that would operate as batteries supporting multiple infantry and cavalry units that were operating together. They were not true battalion guns.

My own feeling is that in the Narva period battalion guns may have well been used, but after that battle and prior to Poltava, the many changes may well have eliminated all but a few of these battalion guns. The regimental batteries of light guns may have been thought to have been a better use.

Battalion guns were disappearing rapidly in all armies from 1690 to 1715, only Ottomans and Russians (may) have retained a few to humor older colonels. I suspect they became very rare in every other army as well. I've learned long ago that in the WSS there is always an exception, but the trend was certainly toward elimination of battalion guns.

I never actually show battalion guns in "divison sized" games. If I think a battalion or brigde has excess to them. Simply give them an extra "long range dice" so if normal musket range is 5" then give them a range of 8" But can only throw 1 dice.

Or as you say. For every brigde give the russian have. Give them an extra light battery.

Yep battalion guns were also grouped into batteries of light artillery.

Light guns also seem to have been more effective against fortifications than musket fire.

The Russians certainly had individual 3 pdr guns which they put in the intervals between battalions to counter the aggressive tactics of the Swedes. Charles of Sweden rarely got to use his artillery as he felt it couldn't keep up.

At Poltava he left nearly all his artillery behind and only took 3 3pdr's into action with his whole army. The Russians had well over 100 guns of all calibres but mostly 2-3pdrs.

Don't have much info on other countries.

Ordering dum Probent has a good article on Russian regimental guns here: link

The dragoons also had artillery attached.

I'm not sure where this idea that the Swedes in general and Karl XII didn't use artillary much comes from, it certainly isn't supported by the sources.

Karl XII fought 5 major field battles:
Narva 1700
The Düna 1701
Kliszow 1702
Holowczyn 1708
Poltava 1709
In these he made use of artillery at Narva, Düna and Holowczyn, at Kliszow he was forced to give battle before reinforcements including the artillery had arrived and at Poltava there was a deliberate choice not to employ most of the artillery.

The Swedish generals commanding smaller armies and detachements also made considerable use of artillery. Now Rehnskiöld didn't use artillery at Fraustadt but that battle was the exception rather than the rule. Lewenhaupt made extensive use of artillery in Courland 1702-1706 as did Stenbock in Scania and Germany 1709-1713, the smaller forces defending the Baltic provinces also deployed artillery in many of their battles and Armfeldt used artillery in the defence of Finland in 1713-1714.

All in all the Swedish artillery did see more than "very occasional", the working horse of the artillery was the 3-pound regimental cannon as it could be moved even in the poor conditions found in the east but the heavier pieces were brought into action when ever possible.