"Muskets & pistols in TYW" Topic

Good day all,
Can anyone tell me the caliber of muskets and Pistols in the TYW?
If there wasn't a standard caliber can someone provide a range of calibers or what is considered "average"?

Also are there any indications if the pistol could actually penetrate armor (especially cuirassier armor ¾ or otherwise)?
I know there was supposedly "bullet tested" but was this armor made purposely thicker or just tested?

Was Pikeman armor "bullet proof"?

Trying to understand a little more on how effective firearms were in the period or were they still more of a
shock and morale weapon.

Thank you
Respectfully
David

Although muskets started out with a bore of around 1 inch (25mm) by the TYW they were all pretty close to .75 (19mm) range, but NOT standardised between armies – calibre is supposed to derive from an abbreviation of a phrase meaning 'the measure of the Prince' – that the owner/commander of the army wanted he got. There were still light pieces but they were rapidly disappearing and would have only appeared in fairly desperately armed troops such as town guards or bandits. Dragoon's firearms were musket bore but short barrelled, often firelocks like artillery guards.

Pistols were around .5 inch or even smaller in bore, and it seems the chosen range for cavalry was with the muzzle in contact with the target (!) although longer ranges were theoretically to be used against infantry. There are a number of accounts of pistols failing to have any effect on armour – you could shove the muzzle into an opening and pull the trigger tho' you would yourself be more vulnerable doing so. Best tactics in practice seems to have been to avoid the cuirassiers until their horses were exhausted then send in the infantry or use carbines to pick them off.

As for Pikemen's armour, most was of very low quality, barely pistol proof if that and frequently discarded if possible. I suspect refurbished old armour may have been more resistant to both bullets and pikes than more 'modern' armour. It has been suggested that many 'proof marks' were faked when the armour was produced, and depending on the time and place any armour was produced the test was actually against light (hand spanned) or heavy (winch spanned) crossbows not firearms.

Muskets were effective against almost all troops, they would 'spoil a man in his armour' from about as far away as you could hit him. Various carbine weapons (dragons etc) would also go through most armour but might fail at long range against good quality armour – not something easy to reproduce at a unit level, more an individual quality.

A wide variety of calibers were in used during the TYW with the pistols in particular being made in a lot of diffrent calibers.

At the time a firearms caliber was measured in how many balls a pound of lead would provide for it rather than the size of it's bore. So the heavy "Spanish" musket had a caliber of "8 to the pound". To complicate matters further the balls fired were actually of a smaller size that would allow the shot to roll down the barrel without problems. So the "Spanish" musket fired balls that were "10 to the pound rolling". Now just to mess with us later day types even more the pound itself was not standardised, the gunmakers of Nürnberg and Augsburg used the heavy Nürnberg pound (510 grams) while the gunmakers of Suhl used the Suhl pound (467 grams) and so on. Oh and the Nürnbergers actually used the Nürnberg silverweight pound (477 grams) for some weapons that had barrels that were drawn rather than forged.

Wether a firearm was designated as a musket or not did not soley depend on it's caliber, the lenght of the weapon and wether was made to be used from a rest were also important factors. For example the Graz Landeszeughaus (state armoury) in present day Austria has a number of muskets that are the full lenght but only have a caliber of 16 to the pound (fired 18 to the pound rolling).

"Full" aka "Spanish" musket_
Caliber of 8 to the pound (21-22mm depending on the pound), fired 10 to the pound rolling (19,7-20,5mm). Despite being labled "Spanish" in some modern works it was used by all armies, particularly early on in the war. In the process of being replaced with lighter muskets but some armies still favoured it due to it's precieved stopping power. (The "progressive" Swedes probably used it long into to the 1620's.)

"Dutch" aka "Half" aka "Ordinary Swedish" musket
Caliber of 10 to the pound (19,7 to 20,5mm)m, fired 12 to the pound rolling (18,5-19,3mm). Became more or less the Swedish standard caliber, at least for native made weapons and the caliber would se use well into the 18th Century. Of course troops in Swedish service ended up using a lot of diffrent calibers as the native arms industry was never able to cover the needs and weapons were imported on a large scale from the Netherlands or bought locally in Germany.

German muskets can in the above calibers but there is also considerable evidence of experimentation with a wide range of lighter caliber muskets. Documented muskets range from 10 to the pound up to 16 to the pound.

Calivers (Arquebus) typicaly came in lighter calibers with the heavies ones being 20 to the pound (15,6-16,3mm) firing 24 to the pound (14,7-15,3mm) with the lighterst ones being bored 30 or 32 to the pound (13,4-14,2mm). As a comparison caliver and arequebus from the later half of the 16th Century were often of around 40 to the pound caliber.

Carbines could be fairly large caliber with some being 16 to 24 to the pound in caliber, others still used the lighter calibers of around 30-32 to the pound.

Pistols showed a greater variety in caliber than any other weapon with calibers ranging from 80 to the pound (about 10mm) up to 24 to the pound ( about 15mm). The trend was for pistols to fire larger shot as the war progressed even though armour was actually used less. A large batch of pistols in the Graz armoury purchased in the early years of the TYW are 12,5mm in caliber which indicates that they were probably about 42 to the pound in 17th C Terms. On the other hand a 1660's batch of new flintlocks purchased by the same armoury were 26-30 to the pound (14,2-15mm)

Well… that clears everything up nicely. ;)

Excellent post Daniel S. The one thing that I would point out is that it's possible that they sometimes fired full size ball, rather than "rolling gauge". It would take a lot longer to load though, but should give better accuracy. Whether or not it was done in combat I don't know, but the manufacturer of my reproduction arquebus recommended such a practice (instead of patching an undersized ball) and he struck me as pretty knowledgeable. Rolling gauge may have been used when speed was desired, and, in theory, you could skip ramming (De Gheyn's manual hints at this practice).

Thanks again Daniel S for pointing out that rules about arms and uniforms in the TYW were as clear as mud. Please tell me you are considering publishing all this wisdom at some point or at least "The Collected posts of Daniel S. A sensible response to wargamers of the TYW".

Thanks everyone for the responses! Some great information provided.

V/R
David