"Thinking of making range of plastic figures in 28mm" Topic

Once, I had a foray into metal figures (it was some years ago). The results were okay, and I had a pretty good sculptor. My life then was slightly more devoted to work, etc. I stopped my efforts after three years. Now, I find both my time and budget have expanded. I am considering making three box sets of plastic figures for the mid 18th century and wondered what might be involved in this. I am not worried about finding a sculptor, but the injection molding process I'm not too familiar with. I imagine it will be a significant cost. Does anyone have any experience in this process or could point me in the right direction? Thanks

Have a read at this first.

link

then this:

TMP link

It might be more cost effective or less risky for you to get one of the people already in the game (i.e. They have gone through the learning curve) to do this for you, with you providing the sculpt.

What's driving your decision to go with plastic rather than metal this time around?

I've read those links and like that flow chart. While this investment is not too surprising, it seems to me that the massive quantity needed to sell in terms of boxes of figures is not being achieved by current producers except maybe Games Workshop. I may be wrong but companies like Victrix, Perry, others have to sell so many boxes of each type that it can't ever pay off. For each box of miniatures it's about 30 grand it seems.

Maybe yes, in terms of doing the leg work on sculpting and promise to buy back a certain number of boxes from the manufacturer, it could be a joint venture or something along those lines.

If it "can't ever pay off", why do they keep on doing it?

I'd guess the Perry's have made their money back on a lot of those boxes. I've painted 18 boxes of the French line in the past 9 months alone. I don't know how the other stuff is selling but I know that one of my local stores was having trouble keeping that big ACW battle set they put out in stock.

The real key is to find a good distributor, right retail price that can be competitive and deal in volume. While selling direct will yield you a nice profit margin, unless you spend even more money to advertise, (you will have to do that anyway to build demand), the volume from selling direct will not keep you fluid. Remember to include the cost of boxes BEFORE you conclude you total cost per sale. Afterall, the same investment pool of money required to buy the packaging must aso provide income and profit as if they were more raw product.

I sure wish I had a local source for Perry, Warlord, Vixtrix, etc. This just reinforces the need to have good distributors and the investment in product line development publicity. While we gamers are aware of the Perry Brothers, etc. you will need to get the average guy on the street interested in order to be able to move the products in the volume you are really looking for.

I would love to see such a project develop. The SYW is open for plastic entry by someone. Just remember, you can't just do one side – who would they fight? Cav is especially expensive in 28mm due to the cost of the metal- horses eat it up like crazy! Plastic would be a way to go but again, each nation will need multiple types of their own.

Good luck on this project!

v/r
Tom

Find your proposed injection moulding company and talk your project over with them.

Choice of figures, well I am afraid to say it, find something that is popular.

And I agree, packaging must be included in the project cost.

I don't see it as expensive. I was planning on doing 3 boxes. Making 60,000 boxes worth of figures (120,000 figures) with a break-even point of 20,000 sales of boxes.

Ditto what Tom said. WAS/SYW is just crying out for 28mm plastic cavalry. Dragoons and Cuirassiers for the major combatants would sell very well. I know my budget would take a hit. Make the horses generic on separate sprues to save time and costs.

Just do it already.:D sensible old school poses please. Of course 1st box Prussian infantry types with all the head types separate spruce for command will need one mounted commander, troop types marching and advancing, perhaps split the box 16 with swiss cuff and 16 prussian cuff, 8 command figures to make 40 figures per box (who we kidding we'll be buying these at special prices for 3:) 2nd could be hussars 3rd mix of both dragoons and cuirassiers , and you have to squeeze in artillery and command oh while you at it perhaps some metal heads and the like for Frikorps and skirmishing types. Have I forgotten something? *v* too ambitious? Definitely a cooperative endeavour with perhaps Warlord.

Renedra offer a complete service based on pantography if you are thinking of traditional 3-up designs. Worth a read anyway.

renedra.co.uk/services.php

Pick something popular but not yet covered in plastics. Be sure that your sculpts look good alongside the most popular figures in your scale, subject and period. This advice comes from the huge number of "Does Brand X work with Brand Y?" posts on TMP and elsewhere.

The Perry model is of course interesting but a significant advantage they have is that the sculpting is not a direct cost for them. The investment in tooling and plastics is a good way for their very successful business to reduce it's tax bill whilst increasing it's diversity and long term growth.

If you are starting from point zero then, as you write, the initial investment has to be recouped overtime. Get it right add there is every reason to suggest that you will make enough profit to grow a line of miniatures. SYW in plastic would be hugely popular and a period not currently dominated by any one manufacturer.

I'm not sure if the Ebob horse license system would suit you but they are lovely models and would be one less thing to worry about having sculpted. Horses can make or break a range in my view so why not use the best out there?

Someone was bemoaning the lack of SYW Prussian plastic infantry the other day. Maybe, but it has to be marketed.
Musketeer, fusilier, grenadier heads.
That would be Swedish cuffs, by the way. Not Swiss.
But would you REALLY need two different cuffs? And more importantly, how would you mold that? How many pieces would that add to the assembly? Two different sets of arms on the sprue? Separate hands? Really?

Thanks for so many helpful comments and pointers in the right direction. I'm serious about this, and will make a to do list which includes contacted Renderra (they seem helpful) as well as trying to figure out the minimum number of box sets that will make up the initial release. I'm thinking Prussian Infantry, Austrian Infantry, Cavalry of both nations that doesn't include special or light cavalry. That is three boxes and a big investment. Artillery and Generals area problem and need to be included somehow. A fourth box of just artillery is probably necessary I guess. One reason it's so much easier to do the WSS as Wargames Factory did once is that the lack of national uniform specifics in many cases and no officer uniforms allows for so many nations to be made from just two boxes one of horse, one of foot.

I like the Ebob horses, but am too ignorant about injection molding at this stage to know if they could work in plastic.

I live, paint, model, game by the adage of John Blanche that style is more important than realism and will aim my sculptor in that direction focusing on contemporary period illustrations which evoke the mood of the times in their own style.

Aside from the upfront cost, do you REALLY want to spend say three hours of every day packing and shipping orders and spending time on business related things? Do you want to attend conventions as a dealer and sit around all day waiting for a few orders to come across the table. It can get very boring and time consuming. I haven't seen your Venture Miniatures on the convention circuit in years which is perhaps an indication of how you would answer the question.

At the expense of your family relationships? It's something to think long and hard about.

Transitioning from a hobby interest to a business interest can suck all the joy out of the Wargame hobby. There are many non-financial considerations that you should discuss with your spouse. Make sure that she signs off on your new time commitment to the new business before you jump into the project.

Any way you can make the figures one piece so they don't require gluing arms and heads on them? If so I would definitely be interested.

Walter, I appreciate your concern and comments which are well received. To the Venture miniatures situation, I stopped doing that for a variety of reasons that had nothing to do with my ability to market the product. I may get those metal ranges going again as part of this overall project as I have the molds and everything just lying there so to speak. For me hobby and business or hobby vs business are not descriptors that fit. I do what I love and have been lucky in life to be able to combine the economic with the inspirational.

Olaf, I appreciate the "quick assembly" desire, but also enjoy the possibilities with swapping arms, heads, equipment, etc. and suspect that will allow me to get more options, such as fusilier, grenadier, musketeer, musician, nco, officer, various poses, etc from one box on less direct investment. We'll see, but for now I'm focussed on finding the right partners to guide me into the design and manufacturing process.

Besides all of the above, I live in a town with the remnants of a niche toy factory and it's offshoots that was "globalized" away some years ago. Many people within 5 minutes have vast experience in injection molding of toy models. I'm meeting one of them next week to talk. You may have known "Ertl".

VVV, I am confused on your math, 60,000 boxes? 120,000 figures. That is 2 figures per box?

Sorry it was 20 figures to a box, so 1,200,000 figures. Timescale allowed, 3 years. Plan was also to give brick and mortar stores 6 boxes (2 of each) free and let them sell them – if you have faith in the project then you should have faith that they will sell. I think total investment in project was a projected £140,000.00 GBP with estimated sales over three years of £400,000.00 GBP

VVV, that is great help on the budget. It sounds reasonable in a general sort of way if the design and marketing were right. Three boxes? Did that include anything else such as packaging, etc and graphic design. We should talk sometime.

I genuinely wish you well, I hope they come out great, and you sell a million boxes! this era is ripe for plastics, so Good luck to you!

John