"GenCon: worth it?" Topic

So I'm in Indy for a week more (already been here for 2 weeks) and I just realized my hotel is across the street from GenCon. I was going to check it out but a one day pass is $75 USD which is a little steep considering I have to go to work at 2pm every day and probably won't be gaming…only event watching and purchasing in the vendor area. I doubt I will be in Indianapolis ever again to see GenCon. Was just curious if people think the juice is worth the squeeze.

Sunday passes are much cheaper, wait and go then. In the meantime, enjoy the circus!

If you have never been, and are staying across the street- go. It's definitely worth it to go at least once. The shopping is amazing (though be prepared to have to wade through a literal sea of bodies once in the exhibit floor).

You won't get a lot of gaming in under what you describe, but you will see many cool and interesting things if you take the time to explore. Keep in mind also that the show is open 24 hours, so you can go in at 2am and see people gaming and doing cool things.

However, yeah, $75 USD is a steep price of entry, but I still say if you never get the chance again, it will be something memorable.

I'd do it for one day and cross it off the bucket list. I say pick the day that will maximize your ticket best and go for it!

I can barely survive a trip to the grocery store, and that's free. $75 USD to go into a noisy crowd seems like bad news to me.

I have been as a vendor in the past around 1988. But now the booth costs and other restrictions makes the cost too high to make money. However I considered going this year just to visit a distributors warehouse which was in the same city. So for me no.

How can they ask, nay get, $75.00 USD for just entrance?
That is insane. US capitalism at it's best I suppose.

I wouldn't spend that kind of money just for the privilege of looking around and spending more money with the vendors. I'd take my $75 USD and buy something on-line.

The attendance is getting to the point that there's too many attendees, and I think the one-day badge cost is a way to thin it out a bit without formally limiting the number of badges available. Pre-reg 4-day badges are much better priced, more like $35 USD a day or so.

Wait for Sunday if you can, and more vendors are willing to deal to avoid the packup

On-line shopping is free.

Of course, you might score some deals in their flea market, assuming they have one of those.

They have an auction, but no flea market or bring-and-buy.
In any event, I'll be there in the morning!

$75 USD for a day pass?!!? I haven't gone for a few years but it was $75 USD for a 4-day pass. Yikes!

The Exhibitor's Hall is open until 6pm and you can certainly spend 4 hours in there and still not see a lot of what is there. A 4 day pass is $120 USD if you want to go more than one day, it is a better deal. Pre-reg prices are better and it would have been $55 USD per day or $90 USD for a 4-day. You could certainly get in some games in the evening if you are interested.

I haven't been there for the last few years and I miss it so I would jump at the chance. Also most of the bars and restaurants around that area will be putting out the red carpets for the gamers and even have gaming going on so even if you don't hit the con, it will be an experience.

If you did pre-reg it was only $90 USD for a 4 day pass. Sounds like planning ahead is necessary for this Con.As long as you don't mind attending with 60,000 plus of your closest friends.

The best is being in the dealer hall when they open the doors on the first day! Watching all the desperate looking people running into the dealer hall is fascinating. Wide eyed, frantic fans all searching for their favorites and trampling anyone who gets in their way. That is worth $75 USD dollars. You'll laugh your behind off!

If you have never been to GenCon then the $75.00 USD is well worth it.

Been to plenty of GenCons and was thinking of doing a drive by this year as it's been awhile since I've been there. But for $75 USD? Forget it.

It's definitely worth it to go at least once. The shopping is amazing (though be prepared to have to wade through a literal sea of bodies once in the exhibit floor).

For a historical miniature Wargamer, how is the shopping any better than at the HMGS Cons?

If you have never been to GenCon then the $75.00 USD USD is well worth it.

How so?

For those of you that haven't been to Gencon and yet say "Forget it", please read what I wrote on a previous topic about Gen Con this year….

Ahem..Gentlemen….

Some more info if you please.

1: Gen Con (the proper spelling), is held at the Indianapolis Convention Center, (and this year it has expanded to the underground exhibition areas of Lucas Stadium).

2: Yes, Gen Con is for profit.

3: Yes Gen Con is crowded. Official ticket/badge sales are approx 60-70K people with a 10% growth rate every year for the last seven years, and a general turnstile count of over 130K.

4: The Gen Con Program guide is huge. Last year it was 354 pages listing over THREE THOUSAND events. Compare that to the guides of CW, FI, and Historicon.

5: Gen Con often competes with other events in the city for Hotel Rooms, (last year, Gen Con was on the opening home game of the Indianapolis Colts weekend, and this week Indy is also having a microbrewery festival and food truck festival as well).Hotels are at a premium this time of year. Everyone wants to stay at the hotel directly across the street and not the one four blocks away. So prices are indeed "adjusted accordingly".

6: Gen Con is more than gaming. You have the dealers rooms, art exhibits, panels and seminars, arts and crafts, tours, (last year among the tours were the old Insane Asylum, the underground market tunnels, and the Indianapolis Ghost Walk), a ball, a massive costume parade, Living Dungeon, Painting and modelling classes, games for kids and families, after hours parties, and a host of other things you can do. My wife (Gawd bless her!) pulled 16 hours of volunteer work in the arts and crafts and taught people how to sew, cut foamcore, and all sorts of stuff. Next door were classes in making LARP Foam weapons, Tango Dancing, Steampunk culture, making a Harry Potter Magic Wand, Glass Etching, etc. You can spend the entire convention doing numerous things and not even do gaming.

7: Last year Gen Con pumped as much money into the Local Indianapolis Economy as did the Super Bowl Weekend., and completely blew Indianapolis Black Expo out of the water, with less issues requiring police, fire, and EMS.

8: Downtown businesses love Gencon. Why? Because the people come here to have geeky fun, and they buy lots of stuff, eat lots of food, and pay well, and tip well. The manager of the Steak N' Shake downtown has people volunteering from other places around town to come work because of the tips, plus the fact that he actually needs the help. Scotty's Brewhouse, Ram, Tilted Kilt, all of them are essentially taken over and rake in the bucks.

9: Indy local PD, FD, and EMS spend most of their time on things like sunburn, dehydration, lost people, etc…Almost NO real issues. No one has been shot and killed at a Gencon in a drive-by, (unlike another event here in town).

10: Gen Con isn't for everyone. True I don't like paying to play, (thus I stick with Little Wars, etc), but I do like to mingle, see the creativity of folks, and spend $$$ in the dealer room. This year I am taking one of my favorite vendors out the dinner at a nice pricey joint and letting him have a good dinner courtesy of me, and my bank account, as well as buying more figures from him.

I honestly never see any of the HMGS cons EVER getting 1/3 of the attendance, or the money that Gen Con does. They have a good racket, (errr…business), going on , and they know it, and they have a good customer base.

Will there be a time when people say "No!" in numbers that make them reflect on what they are doing? Of course it will…perhaps in the next 3-5 years or unless they raise prices too much. But until then….they are working the system.

Here's the deal.
If you are a standard "grumpy old cheap minisgamer" that grips about a 1-2 dollar price increase at "The Host", or you want "cheap" like the Host, or you gripe about having to wait a whole whopping 15 minutes in line for registration, then Gen Con isn't for you. Just stay where you are, and keep reading the arguments on TMP about HMGS moving Historicon from Fredricksburg and reading about the remodeling of The Host.

If you want to see what a massive multi-media convention is like, including dealers room, painting courses, mini games, etc…Then check it out.

I'll be there Sunday. I can't be there earlier due to work, so I didn't get the four day badge this year.

And yes, while expensive, it's actually about the same price for a four day badge that it is for a nice dinner for two at a good restaurant.

Well said Murphy :)

Yeah. That about sums it up! I went once when it was still held in Milwaukee (it is a Wisconsin born event). What a show! It was dominated by Fantasy gaming, Magic, etc and historical games were a distinct minority of the events that I saw. But it rivals Comic-Con in the costumes that turn up! Worth $75 USD if you want to enjoy the sights and sheer creativity.

The shopping is not historicals focused, so you won't find the specialized historical miniatures that you'd find at Historicon. That said, you will find just about everything else, and you will find some vendors with Historical miniatures amongst a huge number of other types of board games, RPGs, miniatures, art, crafts and books.

You will also find vendors of used items and rare items and a number of the same vendors who do come to the HMGS shows.

As for asking why is it worth it- it's the spectacle. It's like a state fair for gaming with entertainment to be found amongst costumes, tournaments, great games and displays and interesting arts and crafts. My first Gen Con was in Kenosha back in the early 80s when Gen Con (sorry Murphy, it was called GenCon and Gen Con way back in the day- and it was printed with both spellings- they may have made it officially Gen Con now, but it wasn't always that way) was only about as big as Historicon. Now it's a massive spectacle of interest and worth it to go at least once.

Murphy did say it well.

I'm staying with HMGS and the Host or wherever the HMGS cons are. I have no desire to pay for "extras" that I don't care about.

Sounds way too crowded for my liking.

Thursday and Friday are not bad. Saturday is insane for crowds. Sunday was rather quiet. If you just want to hit the dealer hall, you might try a Sunday. I have enjoyed every one I have attended.

How can they ask, nay get, $75.00 USD USD for just entrance?

Because it's a media convention, not a wargaming convention. Check one-day admissions for ComicCon and WorldCon.

I am at GenCon now and I would say definitely worth doing once. It is insane but amazing at same time. I got in a queue the length of the convention centre to pick up my tickets it took an hour. If you like gaming there is nothing like it in the world for sheer size and numbers imo.

To have a hotel across the street is many people's dream so I would spend the bucks to see it as a real eye opener.

I'd take my $75 USD USD and buy something on-line.

Bingo. That's almost 3 boxes of hard plastic figures for me.

I'd go. I used to go semi-regularly but not since it exploded in popularity.

If you are a standard "grumpy old cheap minisgamer" that…….

I'm not, but thanks for the condescension and generalization. But if I feel the need to sew my own cosplay suit, get some Steampunk googles, or make a Harry Potter wand, I now know where to go.

As for comparing Gen Con (note the correct spelling) with an HMGS event, isn't that apples and oranges? If convention size was that important a metric to most of us, wouldn't we all be singing the virtues of Comic-Con instead? Those "media" conventions cast a much wider net and will undoubtably always be bigger than the niche conventions that seem to hold my attention better.

While one day I may attend Gen Con, your 10 point description has amply convinced me that I'm in no rush to do so. But I'm also glad no one was shot.

"I'd take my $75.00 USD USD USD and buy something on-line."

Bingo. That's almost 3 boxes of hard plastic figures for me.

Not to seem overly argumentative, but one can use that excuse to never go anywhere. Going to a convention that caters to your interests will cost you time, travel expenses, accomodations, and entrance fees. Only you can decide if the experience warrents the expense.

I'm with Bowman

Only you can decide if the experience warrents the expense.

True enough. I'd go to game, and those cost money on top of the entrance fee.

I ended up not attending. I had every intention but I slept through my alarm, waited in line at Starbucks for 40 minutes and when I got to registration area, the line was still incredibly long to get a badge. I only had 2 hours to look around before I had to get back ready for my work. Decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, especially for a con that seemed a bit alien to me (used to the HMGS East big 3). Thanks for all the input.

I've only ever attended one Gen Con, and that was in the late '80s when it was combined with Origins in Milwaukee (1988, I believe). Had a great time, and I even got to play in a game hosted by the late Donald Featherstone.

In recent years, I stopped attending Origins because of the cost and the general lack of things which interest me. It's my understanding that the current Gen Con is similar to Origins, only a lot bigger. I see photos of the sea of humanity at Gen Con and it turns me off. Just not my cup of tea.

As a vet of every Gen Con since 1974 (less 2 deployments overseas), it is gaming's Super Bowl (and all that goes with it). My wife joined me in 1982, and my kids have been going since they were in-vitro. My first Gen Con was pure minis, save for one minor RPG release called D&D. Since then it has been a roller coaster ride for the miniature gamer. This year there were over 300 historical miniature events, along with 1000 non-historical. HMGS-Midwest was there running 18 games of which every one was sold out and accepted additional walk-ons. Gen Con is a gaming experience for the whole family, the atmosphere is both electric and enthusiastic. Yes, it is crowded and seems pricey, but it is also the barometer for future gamers and gaming. We can all try to pigeon-hole ourselves, and resist anything beyond our genre, but in the strategic overview we all are gamers. So you can redirect your funds to buy additional minis online and add them to your growing pile of unpainted figs or you be a part of gaming history.

Hmmmm I seem to be missing out…. from moving away from the midwest!
Never made it to Gen-Con but always dreamed of it when I lived near there.

I thought its just dying (historical gaming)….Was happy with HGMS in Fredricksburg to get in a game but 60K attendees, holy batman…. gaming in the east sucks and I now have the confirmation.

MG

….and my kids have been going since they were in-vitro.

I think you mean in-vivo.

So you can redirect your funds to buy additional minis online and add them to your growing pile of unpainted figs or you be a part of gaming history.

Part of gaming history? A lot of unsupported assumptions there.

"So you can redirect your funds to buy additional minis online and add them to your growing pile of unpainted figs or you be a part of gaming history." (KCabai)

But at 4' 10", I need my lead mountain to prop me up :)

If you are a standard "grumpy old cheap minisgamer" …

I'm not, but thanks for the condescension and generalization.

Bowman +1.

<q.So you can redirect your funds to buy additional minis online and add them to your growing pile of unpainted figs or you be a part of gaming history.

Part of gaming history? A lot of unsupported assumptions there.

Again, Bowman +1.

I'm not sure what part is historical, Attendance? Revenue? Best games ever released? Best Hello Kitty costume?

I hope those that went enjoyed themselves.

I went and I did enjoy myself. Crowded, yes. But the games I was pre-registered for were held in hotels across the street in comfortable first-class meeting rooms.
Just watching all of the crazy costumes go by was entertaining.
Got to meet a few industry legends.
The only negative was that it was difficult to look at miniature figures in blisters in a narrow crowded booth space with a constant stream of people trying to walk through the same space I was occupying. The vendor's booth/table space seemed small for the amount they had to pay.
I did not get to see the entire vendor hall over 4 days due to the crowded conditions.

Again, Bowman +1.

I'm not sure what part is historical, Attendance? Revenue? Best games ever released? Best Hello Kitty costume?

Yes on all accounts, plus others

Can we leave it as… some gamers enjoy going to Gen Con while others do not.

kcabai, we are acquaintances and we have gamed together. I will frankly admit that I found your following statement somewhat condescending. It implies going to Gen Con is better/superior than spending my money the way I want because somehow, going to Gen Con, I would have contributed to creating "gaming history".

"So you can redirect your funds to buy additional minis online and add them to your growing pile of unpainted figs or you be a part of gaming history." (KCabai)

That was just my opinion upon reading that statement, hence, I made a joke of it earlier. When we are passionate about something, we tend to make very strong statements and not everyone will agree with our sentiments.

I know the various contributions you make to the hobby as a volunteer at many conventions and that makes you someone I hope to be able to call friend in the future as I get to know you and your wife better.

So, let's leave it to some people enjoy going to Gen Con while others do not. Post some information and pictures about your Gen Con 2016 experiences and those interested can read about it. Some may change their minds and attend Gen Con in the future and some may not, but that is okay.

Again, Bowman +1.

Kevin, I hope you weren't counting my comments as "trolling" as with your generalizations on the other Gen Con thread. Trolling is more that just having a disagreement.

I commend you and the other HMGS-Mid West gamers of bringing historical games to a Con where that is not the main emphasis. I used to do that at Origins. I once ran 3 back to back WW2 Wings of War games that tried to mimic Japanese bomber runs on Henderson Airfield with the Cactus Air Force defending. 8 players each time for a total of 24 players for the day, in a continuous 9 hour period. I was exhausted at the end.

I just thought your comment of going to Gen Con is "making gaming history" a little hyperbolic and teased you about that.

Just because somebody chooses not to go doesn't mean it is a personal attack or they don't like Gen Con.

I love Gen Con. I've been to 30+ of them participating as a vendor, volunteer, gamer, and shopper over those years. I like to go every year if I can.

For those that chose to lather themselves into a tizzy because someone posted they were not going for whatever reason let me leave you with this thought.

If I'm contemplating going for the first time or a new gamer and I see posts like yours, I probably think twice. Same thing goes if your name is associated with other cons, stores, or an organization like HMGS. The end result is ironic because the passion you think you are showing for your cause will more likely repel than attract people.

The following comments should be taken in the context of a miniatures payer who GM'ed (thereby did not purchase a ticket )
I think GenCon is worth the money and the effort ,and it can be a real effort .
pros :
Exhibit/dealer hall : There are a lot of dealers there including a good number that have items that pertain to miniature gaming – I had never heard of some of them(4ground) ,others I was familiar with(Pulp Miniatures especially-this is his 1st year so I hope it went well ) -there were a couple of Kickstarter companies there (blood and Plunder )

Seeing new faces and old friends -(re)meeting gamers from across the world-Yes even a gamer from Siberia .

The club sandwich at High Velocity.
introducing gamers to rules sets that they have seen(in some cases never heard of ) and haven't played ( SAGA, Fury on the Lakes, Desert Breeze and even Bolt Action and BlackPowder)

Getting inspired by Dealer demos and other games

The above are much more so than any purely historical convention in the states that I have attended .

the late night gaming with fellow GM's and the drinking associated .Bourbon was the theme drink this year .

Cons:
The sheer number of people in the exhibit hall. and the (small)number of them that feel the need to carry very large backpacks and pull luggage -then stop in the middle of aisles .
The way that a few companies have you wait in line to get a ticket to wait in line to purchase a product(privateer among others )but as long as thousand will they will continue to do so .
The gamer funk – It is real and it was there – Even starting on Thursday . Just look at the number of people you see sleeping in the halls and sofas and know that the only water they see is their own sweat .

having to travel for good food (actually this is a plus as well ) once you get outside a 3 block radius of the convention center , you can get almost instant seating and good service. we ate good food every night ..

Thank you Grtbrt for a very fair review of Gen Con from your perspective without the condescension or shaming of non-attendees.

Thanks for your input Grtbrt:

1) Did you really just discover 4Ground? There products have been at the 3 HMGS cons for years now. Don't worry, I do the same thing. Lol!

2) Sadly, your comment of "Introducing gamers to rules sets that they have seen(in some cases never heard of ) and haven't played ( SAGA, Fury on the Lakes, Desert Breeze and even Bolt Action and BlackPowder)" has been the exact opposite to mine.

At a well known non-historical convention I set up a WW1 Battle of El a la Kut, completes with river, riverboat, a small village, desert dunes, palm trees, oases, etc. Plus a whole amount of nicely painted belligerents, Brits, Indians, Bedouin allies vs Germans, Turks and Arab allies. The rules were the GW's Great War which is based on an older version of 40K. This con had a large amount of 40K players and I thought they would transition easily.

Well I had a lot of people expressing interest in the visual factor of the game. They oohed and aahed. They had no idea that you could invent a historical game from the well known (to them) mechanisms of 40K.

"Are you interested in giving the game a try?", I ask.

"Nope", was the universal reply.

Dave Taylor, the then US editor of Miniature Wargames sees my set up, and arranges to photograph it at the next HMGS con and sure enough it ends up as a subsequent magazine article.

Another time a friend and I ran a Bolt Action WW2 Burma game that drew a lot of praise and attention, but absolutely no interest in any one actually wanting to play. We took the same game to Historicon a few months later, found 8 players and won the PELA award to boot!

None of this has to do with Gen Con directly and so this may be apples and oranges. In that case I apologize for the derail. My point is, that in my experience, historical gaming is sometimes a hard sell to conventioneers that are not there primarily for historical gaming. It's an acquired taste and a small niche interest. Which is why historical miniatures conventions will never have the draw of the larger "gaming" conventions. And nor should they be expected to.