"First Squadron of USAF F-35As Declared Combat Ready" Topic

It's about time! Looks like first squadron of USAF F-35As are combat ready! Let's see how soon they see real service overseas.

Hope everything works and this isn't just an attempt to keep foreign customers happy! While I was never one of those who thought the F35 was a complete failure, I know that they had serious problems with the SW package, which was to make every plane the equivalent of an AWACS, able to monitor and coordinate combat for all planes, I knew that the plane could at least fly.

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Yea, right……….

Is it 2022 already?

My, how time flies.

I seem to recall that as the date the gunnery attack software was due to be delivered, assuming it was completed on time (which software rarely if ever meets the due date – at least if you want it to work as advertised).

To be clear, the F35A was declared IOC, which is 'Initial Operational Capability.' The Marines were due to be IOC in 2015 (and they were- right on time), the Air Force was due to go IOC from August to to December 2016 (and since it's August 2nd, I'd call that on time). The Navy is to go IOC in late 2018/early 2019.

IOC is the first use date for combat with limited capabilities. FOC, or Final Operational Capability is when all software and hardware is declared ready to go, and those dates are set for 2021 for all branches.

All military air platforms go through IOC and FOC. The F16 took several years to go from IOC to FOC (and if you recall, they had lots of issues, including crashes and the fact that they had no radar guided air to air missiles).

Despite Mako's constant doom saying, recent F35 news has been very good. Besides Dutch and British aircraft now doing work ups in their respective countries, the F35 performed exceptionally well in recent exercises.

Here's one exercise where the aircraft enjoyed 100% mission readiness, hit 94% of targets and took out 8 F15E's in mock combat with no losses.

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F-35 is cleared, guns included. Mako, usually you and I are in synch but on this you are wrong. F-35 is a badass piece of kit. Expensive but it does things no other plane in the world can.

So, why the official 2022 date announcement for the gunnery software then?

I suspect it may be able to fire its gun, but that it isn't integrated with the HUD firing status aids to help actually hit the target during high-G maneuvers.

I suspect it may be able to fire its gun, but that it isn't integrated with the HUD firing status aids to help actually hit the target during high-G maneuvers.

Now now, the 25mm gun on the F35s are meant for CAS against ground targets using low level straight runs, not for aerobatics.

If the F35 allows enemy planes close enough to have to dogfight, then it has already failed.

Yea, no chance of enemy aircraft over the front lines during an attack by the CAS jets, so nothing to worry about, especially since they're slower and less maneuverable than 1960s era aircraft, and have very poor, rear visibility from the cockpit, where most attacks come from.

Reminds me a bit of Star Wars Episode IV, and the attack on the Deathstar, as Vader and is escort figters close in on the Rebel pilots from their rear arcs. Just need a FAC or AWACS controller to say repeatedly over the radio, "….stay on target…".

Only Warlock is right here and all the F-35 naysayers are going to have to eat a sizable helping of crow at some point. There was an article last week where during an exercise the F-35s had to turn on their transponders so that the air defenses could see them and participate in the exercise. People forget what their job is and that is to deliver ordnance into high threat environments, which I think it will do pretty well.

All of these officers signing off on the F-35 probably have lucrative offers pending when they retire. I have heard it straight from another officer this is exactly how all of this works.

Until the F-35 is used in combat everything they say about the aircraft is hard to refute. Only time will tell.

Mako, you keep saying that the aircraft is slower and less maneuverable than a 1960s aircraft, but I have to wonder where you get your info.

First, nearly every source I can find by pilots claims that the F35 is just as maneuverable as an F16 or F18. That was the design goal. The F16 and F18 are very maneuverable aircraft and the F35 actually has a better angle of attack capability than either aircraft. Reports in the field say that the F35 allows the pilot to steer his nose onto a target in maneuvers in a way that the F16 and F18 simply can't. That seems to fly directly in the face of your 'less maneuverable than a 1960s aircraft' claims.

You don't have to take my word for it- read this:

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If you are talking about G ratings, keep in mind that the F35 is currently rated for 7G as an operational limit during IOC- NOT a design limit. The aircraft was briefly limited even further during a brief period to sort out issues during testing, but that restriction was lifted very quickly once the problem was found and corrected. Those sorts of restrictions are placed on many models of aircraft every day- you just don't see them touted across the interwebs by foaming haters.

The 3F software for the F35 is due to be cleared for service in 2017. At that point, F35As will be cleared for 9g, while the F35B will be rated for 7.5G. Is this damning? I don't know- the SU27 is only rated for 7G and the F14 was only rated for 6.5G. Were those aircraft considered dogs in the air?

Also, keep in mind, the g limits are what they are rated for to safely operate. Pilots routinely go beyond safe g limits in practice.

Second, the F35 is capable of Mach 1.6 speeds, and even though it wasn't designed for Super Cruise, it can fly for up to 30 minutes at Mach 1.2 without using afterburner.

The key point here, however, is that because the aircraft can carry it's ordinance internally, the aircraft will more routinely fly at above mach speeds.

When you put a lot of ordinance on an F15, F16 and F18, guess what, it slows down- considerably. All of that ordinance induces drag. An F16 loaded with ATG ordinance is simply not going to be flying beyond Mach 1 while an F35 loaded for ATG will.

Finally, on visibility- the F35 is the first aircraft to be designed with 360 degree view cameras all around the aircraft. This gives the pilot the ability to see in all directions as if there was no aircraft around him. You could quite literally take a can of black spray paint and paint over the canopy and the pilot would still be able to fly normally and see in all directions. Visibility to the rear is actually exceptional because of this capability, which no other aircraft currently has.

I guess we'll just have to see, and yes, I was going on the G-limited ratings reported.

Of course, since they're invisible, perhaps enemy aircraft will be more likely to be in the area when they conduct their sorties, instead of staying on the ground, or flying away from them.

The real limitation to me would seem to be the very limited ordnance capacity. There have been a number of simulations that have shown up this limitation. Airpower Australia have been especially critical – personally, I think they will have a very brief operational lifespan before being too vulnerable to semi-autonomous air attack vehicles (drones).