"How is Host remodel?" Topic

Hello gang
Has anyone heard how the remodel is going?
Done for Fall In?
Done for Cold Wars?

I know it was stated to be ready but just wondering if anyone is checking actually ?
Clif

I stopped by and talked with some people when I was in Lancaster for The Weekend. They were just about ready to re-open following the burst pipes.
What I was told by multiple sources was that the remodel was already under way then, beginning with upgraded bathrooms. So the place should be fully functional already, and some upgraded rooms by Fall In, and a steady improvement in rooms and public areas over several conventions to follow.
Now, as an old analyst, I have to point out that (a) I didn't get to see any of the new bathrooms, and (b) not even all things sincerely promised come to pass--as witness, say, the BCC Historicon. But I'd say (1) functional and slightly improved now, (2) expect steady upgrades through--at a guess--Fall In 2019, and (3) somewhere along the line, they'll start charging more for the rooms.
I'm just glad to see the old place coming back. It's got a lot of family and personal--not to mention gaming--history, and for my money it's still the prettiest and most convenient venue--i.e., no commuting once I get there--and more dealers than the Fredricksburg Box.

Thanks Robert
Nice sum up
Cold wars it maybe then😎
Clif

What is The Weekend? When was it as well?

Don

d effinger-
"What is The Weekend? When was it as well?"

TMP link

Early June at The Continental Inn (directly across the street from The Host in Lancaster, PA)

There are a couple of threads about it here in the Conventions & Wargame Shows board.

Just let me know when they finally call in Gordon Ramsay to sort out that detestable restaurant.

B

The Host has a faulty foundation. All the "remodeling" in the world will not fix that.

Yeah… Might get swallowed up and never be heard from again.

Good Lord! What makes a corporation that invests millions of dollars in a property and hires numerous professionals to asses the renovation so darn wrong and you so damn right?
Until you have unfettered access to the property that the current owners have your opinion is half baked at best.

The results will be evident soon enough.

TRU

Considering a major sink hole opened up on Rt 30 just a couple of miles away, who knows.

As far as the plan that the Friendwell Group, which is really a fusion of a Japanese and Taiwan buisnesses, they haven't been very forthcoming with their time table.

Interesting to note they acquired the property for 6.1 million dollars. Interesting because the highest bid for the property was $8.3 USD million in the auction, and that didn't meet the sellers price. Two months later they unload it for $2 USD million less than the best offer they judged not acceptable? And then it has a major water break and the electrical system shorts. Doesn't take a genius to figure out something is up there.

I also remember so many who love the place coming on and saying it was fine and that people were being overly critical. Then it was condemned twice in three months, the first time for massive food violations.

I hope they fix it up. I hope they do it without drastically jacking up the con price. But honestly, saying because someone thought it was worth buying, that doesn't mean once they have it they are going to expend significant funds on the place. So yeah, the results will be evident, but there's just as much reason to be cynical as hopeful at this point IMO.

When the place was closed due to the water main break the new owners announced that renovations would be completed in about 18 months. That seems like an impossible time line for a building of that size, but then it would depend on what their definition of "renovation" truly will be in reality. Time will tell one way or another!

I wouldn't worry about the food violations – I never eat there. Never stay there either, only game and shop there once or twice a year.

The Host has a faulty foundation

Hadn't heard that before – what's the source for that information?

As far as I have seen it's only come from rmaker. I'd like to see the proof of it as well.

I admit I remain highly skeptical of the whole remodeled in 18 months story…

"That seems like an impossible time line for a building of that size"
And this is based on your background in what?

I admit I remain highly skeptical of the whole remodeled in 18 months story

Me too….
The documentation phase and permitting process alone would take up a far chunk of that time.
Getting a plumber in to fix a leaking pipe, or a painting company to paint a few walls, or a flooring contractor to replace damaged carpeting is all fairly simple.
But, it's not the cosmetics of the host that need attention, it's the complex infrastructure, above the ceilings, and within the walls, that need vital attention, and hopefully replacement.
If the new owners have taken the financial decision to remodel the existing building, rather than systematically demolish and rebuild portions of the building over time, then I'm slightly concerned that the approach may be more a case of lipstick on a pig. That was the approach of the previous owners, when they first purchased the Host. They spent many millions on a facelift, and left the rest to rot in place. Hopefully, the new owners have many, many millions to spend, and they do the right job, both for the sake of the Host and possibly, by extension, for HMGS and their conventions too.
In the case of the new owners, I believe they have to attend to the hidden problems of the infrastructure first [plumbing, lighting, heating and cooling], rather than throw too many dollars away on new paint, tile, carpet and fitting and fixtures in the guest rooms.
I offer this opinion based upon nearly 40 years in the field of architecture, design and construction.

Alot of the proof will be when we all get there in Nov and see what progress has been made. Alot of this talk is absolutely meaningless.

But to the point mentioned above, come November they might not have done a thing as far as physical change due to the amount of time trying to figure out what needs to be done, draw up plans, get quotes and permits, etc. And as it is, the HMGS Board needs to decide relatively soon whether to renew the contract beyond 2017 or not .

Alot of the proof will be when we all get there in Nov and see what progress has been made. Alot of this talk is absolutely meaningless.

Of course it may help if HMGS, or anyone local and willing to volunteer a trip to the Host, drop by in an attempt to find out what's going on at the Host.

A bad sign would be:
Business as usual, but one or two guys walking around with paint brushes, and truck in the parking lot which says 'Handyman for hire'.

A better sign would be:
Multiple contractor trucks in the parking lot displaying signs that say 'Plumber', 'Heating and Cooling', 'Electrical' etc. With certain corridors closed off with zip wall or similar, with a big bold sign saying 'Construction in Progress'

Without this type of information then, you're right, this is all mere speculation…. but we need to know! And we don't need to know vague details, but explicit details of what's planned and what the schedule might be.

Because, if the plans focus on lipstick on a pig, then HMGS probably do need to look for another venue.

The best sign would be some yellow tape all around the parking lot with warning signs saying "Blasting in progress" with some front end loaders standing by.

Just got back from the WBC at the new venue they moved to from the Host, Seven Springs PA. It is in nearly all respects far superior to the Host, East should give it a look. It's a good bit farther away near Pittsburg tho.

The best sign would be some yellow tape all around the parking lot with warning signs saying "Blasting in progress" with some front end loaders standing by.

A little glass half empty……
However, given the abundant local lodgings within easy reach of the Host, my preference might be a more limited demolition…. let's say 150 rooms reduced to rubble, and the vacated ground converted to additional parking.
The remaining 180 rooms could then be renovated to the fullest extent possible, and the other facilities brought into the 21st century with improved lighting and air conditioning. Just a thought….

They need those rooms for revenue. I don't seem them reducing the number of rooms for parking spaces that don't generate additional revenue unless they go higher than two stories.

Who says they need the rooms for revenue?
Plenty of convention/conference centers don't operate hotel rooms…. F'burg for example.
It's nice that they have rooms, but either business can be successful independently – surely

The Host has roughly 90 days to show some serious progress between now and your own exacting inspection, Nigel.

Before Fall In, I'll buy you a set of white gloves, like those inspecting officers used during barracks inspection in Queen Victoria's day. At least that was how it was portrayed in the movies.

I'd hate to be the Host.

My understanding is that HMGS only has contracts for two more conventions at the Host (Fall In 2016 and Cold Wars 2017). After that, the Host will have to earn HMGS' business just like any other venue.

My own opinion is that no new deals should be signed with the Host before the "renovations" (whatever they may be) are completed. As was discussed at the H'con membership meeting, the BOD has recently spent considerable time and effort looking at alternate venues. There are other options that HMGS can use while it waits for the "New Host" to take shape.

Frank,
My exacting inspection will be:
1. Did they fix the switch plate in the gaming area[s], so you can physically adjust the lighting levels?
2. Did they install a thermostat – anywhere…..?
3. Did they improve the lighting to provide more efficient and brighter fixtures in the gaming area[s]?
4. Can I get a shower and flush the toilet in my guest room on a Sunday morning?

I fully expect the Host to fail miserably in three out of four of the above… but getting one right would be an improvement – and I'm actually a supporter of the Host!

For what its worth some of the Board are gong up later this month to see what there is to see. But as has been noted FI16 and CW17 are there by contract and we cannot afford to cnx.

Kevin

There are new ice machines – saw them in June.

Good answer, Nigel.

I'm still getting you the white gloves.

On a serious note, wouldn't the Host's plans for renovation have to be filed with some local building authority for public comment, inspection and approval? I defer to your considerable expertise on the subject.

If so, perhaps it would be worth some time and effort by HMGS to try and get a look at whatever might be available between now and Fall In? Then we might know whether we are looking at a real renovation or the "lipstick on a pig" approach, something I would want to know before picking up a pen to sign any future deals with the Host.

I seem to recall a previous post in a related thread mentioning that the new ownership had already put the renovation program into motion prior to the water main break.

B

Bluto,
At the time of the water main break, renovation had not yet begun.
When the Host reopened they seemed to indicate that renovations would begin "in little over a month". That was exactly one month ago.

Hopefully they have already started.

TRU

Thanks for clarifying that, TRU.

B

The Host won't get permits to tear down a wing and replace the rooms with something else. I deal with the local government in my real life. One of the issues prospective buyers encountered is the county commissioners are adamant the Host won't be downsized or torn down and the land re-used for something else. The county's #1 industry is tourism centered on the Rt 30 strip. The commissioners view the Host as the anchor for the strip. (That, BTW, is also why they won't let a Rt 30 by-pass be built nor permit major retail/hotel expansion on the roads paralleling Rt 30.) The new owners knew they have to make the Host economically viable again.

The Host won't get permits to tear down a wing and replace the rooms with something else.

Get the right lawyers involved and most things are possible, particularly if you introduce finances and economics into the mix. Nobodies attempting to change the use, merely to create an economically viable concern, that will be of benefit to the community and provide taxes to the local government. A good lawyer will argue that the current Host is a dinosaur and is close to extinction, unless a radical reappraisal of it's business model is considered. The commissioners can either embrace and support a positive approach to ensure it's continued existence, or watch it slowly succumb to market forces, and end up with no revenue and an eyesore on Route 30.

wouldn't the Host's plans for renovation have to be filed with some local building authority for public comment, inspection and approval?

If they were planning extensive demolition (which they apparently are not), and/or exterior renovations, that might include changes in materials etc., then an application to planning and zoning would be required. A change of use would also require submission to P&Z, but that is not the case here also. So there are probably no pretty presentation boards that would be accessible to the public.

As the scope of the remodel would appear to be mainly internal, but more than a mere cosmetic paint job, then signed and sealed architectural and engineering drawings would need to be submitted to the building and/or engineering department for review and approval. The public should have access to those drawings, but only by going to the local authorities offices. The contractor on site should also have a copy of those documents, but he won't want to show anybody. The Host management might have a set on site too, but they might not want to share those either. These are technical documents, and not necessarily easily understood by a lay person.

The commissioners can either embrace and support a positive approach to ensure it's continued existence, or watch it slowly succumb to market forces, and end up with no revenue and an eyesore on Route 30.

The continued existence and economic viability of the Host as a convention center and resort is exactly what the commissioners want, not just fresh paint on a falling down building or another shopping center in its place. The Host has been crucial to the economy for decades and they want it to remain so. How would tearing down a wing to make more parking improve economic viability?

And more importantly, I don't see more parking spaces generating more revenue for the hotel itself.

How would tearing down a wing to make more parking improve economic viability?

Because the number of rooms that the facility have to operate is problematic from an operational point of view for the Host management. That has been evident from the 'scavenging' of parts from rooms, in an effort to maintain the operation of fewer rooms, that has been seen over recent years. The former management made the decision some time ago that they didn't need 300+ rooms and actually couldn't support that number of rooms financially.
There are plenty of new hotels on the strip that would provide great accommodation for conference or convention room attendees, what's lacking on the site is the associated parking to receive those offsite attendees.
If the Host reduced the number of guest rooms, ensuring that those are of the highest quality and standard, and at the same time increased the parking on their site, they would be able to potentially provide an improved conference/convention business model.
Currently the Host offers an abundance of 60's grade motel rooms, supported by too little parking, and second class conference/convention spaces.
Somethings got to give – the strip has more than enough quality hotel guest rooms. It needs a quality convention/conference center with adequate parking. Provide those two things, supported with a minimum of guest rooms, and it's a positive business model. At least then they should be able to pay their taxes….

You assume they didn't need 300 rooms versus the possibility that they didn't have the capital to keep 300 rooms operating. And other than big events like Historicon, the parking is more than adequate. Razing an entire wing for parking that is needed for just a handful of events per year doesn't make much sense .

Razing an entire wing for parking that is needed for just a handful of events per year doesn't make much sense .

It may only be a handful of events right now – but who knows if they make the conference/convention venue more attractive [and that's the draw, not the motel rooms, kids zone, or outdoor pool], then they might have more need for on site parking…..

Just checked, The Host is open and functioning.

if they make the conference/convention venue more attractive

Lancaster already has a convention center downtown that is comparable in size to the Host with plenty of parking, but it is underutilized because there aren't enough convenient, affordable hotel rooms. The Host offers all 3 with a proper renovation. Yes, there are other hotels on the strip, but how many families will walk from them to the Host for an event?

Lancaster already has a convention center downtown that is comparable in size to the Host with plenty of parking, but it is underutilized because there aren't enough convenient, affordable hotel rooms.

Downtown locations will typically struggle to find adequate and convenient parking, and hotel rooms.
PDF link

but how many families will walk from them to the Host for an event?

That's why you need more parking, specifically to cater to the attendees that stay offsite essentially to accommodate the day trippers.
In my opinion parking, and not remodeled 60's motel rooms, are the key to making a successful conference/convention venue.

Just checked, The Host is open and functioning.

Cleo – did you notice a couple of guys walking around with paint brushes, because that's not a good sign.

Many thanks to Cold Steel and Ligniere for sharing their considerable technical expertise with the rest of us.

When it comes to the Host, I think most of us would agree that there is a difference between "repair" and "renovate." Repairs mean fixing what is obviously broken or in less than working order throughout the facility. Renovations involve actually tearing things down and replacing them with new construction.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the worst, 10 being the best), I'd rate the Host around a 4-5 based upon my last stay there. That includes both the meeting rooms (which in my opinion are in better shape for gaming purposes than the hotel rooms) and the hotel rooms. Others may differ in their ratings.

If we are talking about "repairs" to the Host, that would add 1 or 2 points, at best, to its rating. "Renovations" are the only way the Host gets to an 8-9 level and those renovations would have to be substantial.

If members of the BOD are going out there this month, they can see what work, if any, is in progress. It's in the Host's interest to share with HMGS any renovation plans they may have.

The rest of us will take a look in November at Fall In and judge for ourselves.

Liegnier, your map shhows just the city-owned parking garages, not the private hotel ones. The downtown civic center has almost 1,000 parking spaces within 1 block and well over 1,000 more within 3 blocks. Parking isn't an issue, but the lack of hotel rooms is. Every one convenient to the center is $150 USD+ a night, too much for most tourists and too far away from other attractions. That's why the commissioners are so concerned with keeping the Host viable.

Cold steel,
I got the parking map from the Convention centers website – it doesn't appear to indicate the other hotels, but a search shows the closest 0.3 miles distant. The public and private events schedule is pretty lack luster.
The commissioners are right to be concerned and have a desire to maintain the viability of the Host.
The Host was built when Route 30 looked a lot different to what it does today.
At that time it needed over 300 hundred rooms, and could easily support that number of rooms, as a tourism anchor. But, their share of the market has been eroded over the years, as more and better accommodations have been built on the strip. That's all to the good for the Host – or it should be.
My suggestion, and that's all it is, is merely one possible, cost effective, approach to the issues that face the continued viability and existence of the Host which focuses more on its operations as a conference/convention center. The Taiwanese ownership certainly don't frequent the pages of TMP, so whatever I, or others, might propose is lost in the wind.

Based on the last month of TripAdvisor reviews, it looks like the closure for the month of June did the absolute minimum to get the place re-opened.

link

Yow! Sounds like it's still pretty darn bad.

Will you guys let the friggin renovations get started/underway before making any more comments… Better yet why don't you wait until the first block of rooms is completely renovated. (There is a novel idea!)

I know you're having fun nay saying, but at least wait for improvements to be made.
We have heard all the doom and gloom from massive sink holes, faulty foundations and killer mold.

TRU

Agreed, Nazrat.

The recent reviews are brutal.

In a way, HMGS has been very fortunate that the major incidents at the Host have not taken place during an HMGS convention or, even worse, days before when it would have been too late to move the convention.

Like TRU said, we'll have to wait and see what comes next. It's a long time between now and Fall In. We'll see what, if anything, the Host does between now and then.

I hope FI/CW stay at the Host forever. Eventually we'll get with the 21st century and stop limiting venues to an attached hotel.

18 Month Time Line.
319 Rooms,
That's 17.7 Rooms per month (not accounting for weekends + Holidays)
So that's about 1 room every 2 days.

Then there's the leaking roof over the Lobby, and the partially collapsed roof over the 600 Level Suites, where the water damage went into the Suites on the 500 & 400 levels.

The buckled and pot marked parking area around the back of the facility.

Then the poor lighting and non functioning sockets and switches in the many meeting and event rooms.

The Federal Regulations & Procedures regarding Mold Removal.

Etc., etc., etc.

Sure, let's take a wait and see attitude!

Ah… Now the non working electrical sockets and pot marked parking lot. The straws keep accumulating by the minute….

Expert opinion no doubt… (sarcasm). Just keep those torches burning and pitch forks gleaming.

Isn't this extremely silly before even knowing if work has begun? Be patient, the day of reckoning will be here soon enough.

TRU