"Flint and Feather/Pulp Woodland Indians" Topic

I bought some of these fantastic new 28mm figures at Historicon and have begun painting them. I wonder how these figures match the Eureka 28mm Powhatan figures -- anyone know?
Mark

I haven't seen them side-by-side. But I have seen both sets of figures at different times, and I think they match pretty well in size, heft and sculpting style. The F&F figures are in more active poses than the Powhatans, but I don't think that difference is too jarring. The Powhatans are mostly modeled from the John White paintings of Chesapeake Bay Algonquians in 1585; hairstyles and garments are different from Iroquoians. Except there is one Eureka figure in full wooden armor, who is an Iroquoian.

Thank you zippy. I'll get some of these then. Just have to decide what tribe/nation to use them for in a Beaver Wars scenario. Anyone have suggestions? Delawares?

The Eureka Powhatans are southerners – they're all barefoot. Their appearance is documented only for the Chesapeake Bay region.

You might proxy them into a Beaver Wars campaign as Fort Ancient people: proto-Shawnees. "Shawnee" means "southerner". Living in the middle Ohio valley, the Shawnees were the southern-most of the woodland Algonquians. When they dispersed in the mid-17th century, some of them moved farther south to live with the Creeks in the Carolinas.

Some disagree, but I think it's probable that the historical Shawnees descend from the prehistoric Fort Ancient culture of the middle Ohio valley. They were probably dispersed west and south, and their territory depopulated by disturbances related to the Beaver Wars, when the Five Nations Iroquois attacked the Eries and other Iroquoian tribes in northern Ohio. Later the Shawnees returned to their homeland and re-established themselves in the Ohio valley.

Besides their traditional friendship with the Muskogean speaking Creeks, the Shawnees were traditional enemies of the Cherokees, the southern Iroquoian people who lived in the next valley south, the Tennessee valley. The forever-war between the Shawnees and the Cherokees kept the Kentucky country between them a depopulated buffer zone where game animals could thrive – a disputed 'dark and bloody' ground where hunting parties could reap a rich harvest, but might encounter enemies at any time.

The Shawnees' Cherokee and Creek neighbors participated in Mississippian civilization, but the Fort Ancient people did not. Mississippian territory ended in the lower Ohio valley. Algonquian oral history, such as the Delaware Wallum Olam, records a great war between the Algonquian peoples and the Mississippian Tallegas when the Algonquians crossed the Mississippi and entered the Ohio country.

I think that the Shawnees were originally a 'nation', a group of people who spoke the same language and practiced a common culture, but were not politically united. I think their original political organization was by major town, each of which had its own territory, and that these town identities survived as the 'septs' of the historic Shawnee tribe, each of which had its major town: Pickaway, Maykujay, Kispoko, Chilacothe and Hathawegila.

These towns were probably allied but may sometimes have fought. They may have been united in religious observances that descended in part from Hopewell times. The present site of Marietta, with its elaborate earthworks, where the Mukingum joins the Ohio, was a major ceremonial center in Fort Ancient times. The famous Serpent Mound has recently been re-dated to Fort Ancient times. Fort Ancient itself and other Hopewell ceremonial sites were still in use in Fort Ancient times.

Zippy, I see I've come to the right place for information as usual!

Make sure you've read the latest version of the post. I added some information, besides fixing the spelling.

While I'm not a professional historian or anthropologist, the Shawnees are a particular study of mine. They're the home team here in Cincinnati. Besides reading, I've visited all the sites I mentioned and others too, all I could find, and met and talked at length with members of the tribe at Indian Fairs and re-enactments. There are still mounds in the neighborhood that are their work.

Actually, per your question, Delaware Bay is not far north of the Chesapeake at all. You could probably proxy those Eureka Powhatans as Delawares, too.

Depending on the timeframe, if it falls into the late 16th through the end of the 17th centuries, your Powhattans may have interacted with the Algonquian Lenape/Delawares (southern bank of the Delaware River and the extended Atlantic coast southwards), the Swedes, the Dutch (modern state of Delaware), the Iroquois-speaking Tuscaroras (southward in VA and Northern NC), and the Iroquois-speaking Susquehannocks (central PA, down into MD and perhaps Northern VA). Whether these interactions were alliances, trade, or war, could depend on the year or the situation.

Again, thank you --the Eureka figures are in the mail already. So, who knows about the Neutrals? I know they were Iroquoian. Any ideas on how their dress/appearance would differ from a band of Mohawks or Senecas?

I got nuthin'. I don't know of any pix of Neutral warriors, or any detailed descriptions. My best guess is that they were near neighbors of the Iroquois and Hurons and culturally similar, so probably looked a lot like.