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"What's the 1 thing you'd change bout Wargaming?" Topic


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04 Dec 2018 1:26 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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1,875 hits since 19 Jul 2016
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 3:46 p.m. PST

I lifted this from the WSS 2016 survey but thought it was an interesting one we should discuss here.

"Nothing" came to mind immediately. If it was any better I wouldn't be able to keep up financially or find any more time than I already devote to it.

An active Napoleonic 1812 era Voltigeur Cornetist in Greatcoat sculpt in 28mm seemed too narrow.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian19 Jul 2016 4:12 p.m. PST

Being able to find an opponent when needed

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 4:43 p.m. PST

I would cut down on the number of scales. 15mm, 18mm, 20mm, 22mm, 25mm, 28mm, 1/87, 1/76, 1/72 are all within a couple mm of each other, and the figures and vehicles are seldom compatible with each other.

So often I read something like we need a new active Napoleonic 1812 era Voltigeur Cornetist in Greatcoat sculpt in 28mm, but why not in 25mm, or 15mm? I think the plethora of scales only serves to make each market a smaller niche.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 5:00 p.m. PST

Scales!

Instead of the meaningless XXmm I would pass a law requiring manufacturers to actually stick to a scale! What is 15mm? To the eye? To the top of the head? To the top of the hat? To the middle of the bridge of the nose? All of these and more. I have "15mm" ranging in height from 14mm to 20mm (to the top of the hat).

And heavens forbid we actually use similar scales to other hobbies.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 5:15 p.m. PST

Consistent terminology.

Zargon19 Jul 2016 5:20 p.m. PST

Yeah what's with all the dice and mesuring thing?

Sundance19 Jul 2016 5:23 p.m. PST

I'd outlaw whiney players. The guys who think they should get a trophy because they tried. And I'm not talking millennials. I'm talking gamers in their 50s and 60s. First of all, it's a game! Second of all, if you get distracted and don't meet the victory requirements, you didn't win! Period!

Dynaman878919 Jul 2016 5:28 p.m. PST

Wargaming and football would swap in popularity.

kallman19 Jul 2016 5:32 p.m. PST

I commented in the survey that I would like for ALL who engage in the miniature war games to recognize that we are a niche hobby and that there is room for all aspects of how people participate.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian19 Jul 2016 5:35 p.m. PST

Oktoberfest girls – all wargaming conventions should be held in October.

Winston Smith19 Jul 2016 6:01 p.m. PST

Wargaming has gotten along fine without taking my advice for years now, so why start now?

Korvessa19 Jul 2016 6:03 p.m. PST

A wargamwer who lives within 100 miles.

Winston Smith19 Jul 2016 6:03 p.m. PST

Ok, I would make one change. I would forbid wargamers from whining about movies. Shut up. They aren't making them for you. You are 0.067% of the movie audience, and you're probably so cheap you're waiting for it to be free on cable anyway. grin

Winston Smith19 Jul 2016 6:05 p.m. PST

Add a Mulligan die roll to every rule set.

skippy0001 Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 6:06 p.m. PST

More ladyfriend players. They are great tacticians.

Toronto4819 Jul 2016 6:14 p.m. PST

Politics and Current Events intruding into a hobby

HangarFlying19 Jul 2016 6:44 p.m. PST

[quote=Extra Crispy]Instead of the meaningless XXmm I would pass a law requiring manufacturers to actually stick to a scale! What is 15mm? To the eye? To the top of the head? To the top of the hat? To the middle of the bridge of the nose? All of these and more. I have "15mm" ranging in height from 14mm to 20mm (to the top of the hat).

And heavens forbid we actually use similar scales to other hobbies.

Almost as if we need a NMRA for miniature wargaming to designate scales and parameters, and if a manufacturer makes a miniature within those parameters, the manufacturer can sell the figures stating that they meet the standards and what not.

Allen57 Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 6:48 p.m. PST

I am with extra crispy. Scales no matter what you call them are all over the board. Some consistency is needed.

Winston Smith19 Jul 2016 6:57 p.m. PST

Perhaps wargaming "scales" should be required to be compatible with ISO9000 standards.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 7:58 p.m. PST

I would settle for scales that are compatible with arithmetic.

Personal logo Narratio Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2016 8:09 p.m. PST

I'd go with Extra Crispy. Not liking 18/20mm as a scale. It's 15 or it's 20 for crying out loud. 10mm and 12mm? What about the whole 5 / 6 /8mm confusion?

Define the scale and then stick to it. Foot to top of head. sole of feet to eyeballs. Don't care just make them all teh same. I know this is for small minds but please let there be some consistency. I've far too many units that, side by side, although theoretically to the same scale just make you blink.

Weasel19 Jul 2016 8:46 p.m. PST

Pass a law that there can be something other than French Old Guard and Nazi tanks on game book covers.

Chuckaroobob19 Jul 2016 9:04 p.m. PST

I would change my dice luck, preferably to the better.

piper90919 Jul 2016 9:16 p.m. PST

I dunno what the British and Europeans have figured out or do better, but why is the state of gaming outwith the USA so much healthier-looking and vibrant and sociable than what seems to be the norm in the USA? I'd ID some "best practices" if possible and then imitate them domestically (writing as a US citizen).

snurl119 Jul 2016 11:26 p.m. PST

I would like to see a universal standard for scales as well.

RebelPaul20 Jul 2016 2:41 a.m. PST

Finding a local place to plat.

Green Tiger20 Jul 2016 2:58 a.m. PST

I am going to follow the herd and call for standardise or 'actual' scales or sizes…

Mute Bystander20 Jul 2016 3:24 a.m. PST

No, the minute you get somebody dictating what a hobby manufacturer does in size of miniatures you reduce the production of miniatures by sculptors (creative people pretty much have an idea about what is "ideal" in presentation and they stick with it,) you increase inter hobby politics (we need more of that?) and you limit personal preference. Let the market forces of our niche hobby determine what is created and stays the course.

I think differing opinions of what is "compatible" is a legitimate practice but it is just an individual's opinion.

daler240D20 Jul 2016 3:48 a.m. PST

The scales compatability issue is a legitimate gripe. Get the 3D printing thing down to the quality where any figure can be reproduced in a scale that will fit in with others that are slightly different.

Timotheous20 Jul 2016 4:17 a.m. PST

I would want to have access to great figure and terrain collections for gaming at my house, but without the bother of it all cluttering my house. I know the answer is to attend more conventions. I do admire and appreciate the effort and artistry that goes into many of the games we see at conventions like Historicon, but then I think, where would I ( if it was my game) store it all? I need a cabinet of holding, yeah, that's the ticket!

Early morning writer20 Jul 2016 6:01 a.m. PST

Get rid of that one guy in each group we all know who is why the 'others' think it is a strange hobby. Maybe send him off to be a happy stamp collector. But he never shows up at a game ever again. And now we can all relax and actually enjoy the game rather than worry about his never ending diatribes, complaints, bad play, lack of knowing anything real about history – name your poison.

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2016 7:25 a.m. PST

Every figure comes ready painted.

Black Hat Miniatures20 Jul 2016 7:41 a.m. PST

Nothing.

The sheer diversity and chaos of the hobby is one of its appeals….

Mike

Lee Brilleaux Fezian20 Jul 2016 9:16 a.m. PST

An increased use of soap and showers.

Old Contemptibles Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2016 12:00 p.m. PST

Standardize the figure scales and base size.

Rules should be no longer than 12 pages. Which does no include design notes, scenarios and pretty pictures. Those can be added on. But the core rules, 12 pages.

Consistent terminology.

Pre-painted figures. You can buy WWII vehicles already painted ready to go on the table. Why not figures?

Bring back a Geo-Hex like product.

More regional conventions that cover the core periods. Naps, ACW, SYW, AWI, WWII. Fewer demos at cons and more games with rules that people actually play.

That's more than one, sorry.

Inkpaduta20 Jul 2016 12:11 p.m. PST

Reduction of the amount of rules. Having a few standard rules that everyone knew would be great. Yet, I know that is impossible.

Henry Martini20 Jul 2016 5:01 p.m. PST

An army-share system, Timotheous?

Winston Smith20 Jul 2016 6:52 p.m. PST

To be serious for a moment…
I disagree with "standardization" of any kind.
If you don't like the fact that Quackenbush Miniatures makes Late Early Imperial Democratic Romans in 19mm… Don't buy them. Maybe somebody wants "heroic 18mm" figures. If they don't the market will silence them.

If you don't like Flames of Righteousness Napoleonic rules because there are already "too many" Napoleonic rules… Don't buy them. Maybe someone else will.

Mute Bystander21 Jul 2016 3:53 a.m. PST

Did Winston and I agree?!

First sign of the Apocalypse.

Differing scales does not require control, it is a strength and not a threat to civilized society.

Old Contemptibles Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2016 8:04 a.m. PST

There are standard scales in the train hobby. Seems to work for them. There are different scales, but when you say HO, I know what you mean and the HO from another brand works with any brands HO. For the most part each scale O, HO, N, S etc. are standardized.

In our hobby, 15mm could be anything from 12mm to 18mm same with 25mm/28mm. Don't tell me this won't work.

Mute Bystander21 Jul 2016 10:15 a.m. PST

Rallynow,

The question for me is not "would it work" whatever that means may vary between people but "why do we need it?"

I don't think we do. YMMV. While I use multiple scales (3mm planes, 6mm Fantasy and SF combined arms battle, 15/18mm historical/SF/Fantasy armies, legacy 25mm historical/SF/Fantasy armies, and the "heroic 28" figures for character driven games) I have no problem with others using 2mm, 10/12mm, 40mm, 54mm, etc., sized figures in gaming.

Why try and control a herd of cats?

doug redshirt21 Jul 2016 10:22 a.m. PST

All participants would be required to wear a suit coat and tie, with plaid shorts and either a pith helmet or bicorne hat. Unless you prefer pre 1800s and then a tricorne is acceptable.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Jul 2016 2:45 p.m. PST

Don't tell me this won't work.

To follow up Mute Bystander, it's more a question of why the train hobby does it. Without some standardization, you physically can't get things to work together. And don't think for a minute that model train hobbyists are unfamiliar with phrases like, "I wish they made that in my scale." "Why are there so many different scales?" "Does this work with that?"

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2016 3:05 p.m. PST

Smith Bystander 2016!

Early morning writer23 Jul 2016 8:06 a.m. PST

While I understand those who argue against it – personal freedom and all that – I must agree that standardization of scale within our hobby could be a good thing. But will it ever happen? Highly unlikely: anti-competitive from a manufacturers perspective.

And herding cats?

Herding cats, even really pissed off cats, would be a cake walk to herding wargamers. We, being as we are, lliken being individualists to a herd of sheep following willing to the cliff they are about to fall over (or lemmings if you prefer that myth) – this hobby is a form of benign schizophrenia for most. Few and far between are those with a sole and singular focus on one period in one scale (though now some of those few will shout that they are!).

Rather than being individualists maybe we can call ourselves scattervidualists.

Dashetal23 Jul 2016 6:55 p.m. PST

More agreements as to what rule sets should be used each year so we have agreement and more importantly lots of gamers playing the same game for at least one year. Each year a panel should select various sets for the following year.

Last Hussar24 Jul 2016 2:58 a.m. PST

I'm with the size crowd.

Quoting in scales 1 to x. People say "Well, people are different heights" don't see the problems- for starters even '20mm' (putative 1:72) 1mm is 7.2cm almost 3 inches, and it is never just 1mm. Plus the equipment doesn't scale a musket stays the same size no matter who is carrying it.

(I have nothing against different scale- though people who don't do 10mm are obviously wrong- it is the multitude of sizes inside the same alleged scale that I rally against.)

I'd also publicly flog anyone who thinks you measure to eyeline TOP OF HEAD.

Ottoathome24 Jul 2016 4:37 a.m. PST

There is nothing wrong with the hobby.

Scales- Buy what you wish, no one's holding a gun to your head.

Consistent sizes within scales- Once you put the figures down on the table top you never notice this. I blend 25mm classics with Willies. Put the same figures in a unit and when it gets to the table top you have to look hard to notice the difference.

Sculpts? If everything I ever wanted was made I wouldn't be able to do conversions and make unique units and have enormous bragging rights and show them off.

Difficult and obnoxious gamers- Don't invite them back.

Hugely overcomplicated rules, or ludicrously simple ones- it's all to your taste, use what you wish. "When I'm at your house I play by your rules."

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Jul 2016 6:33 a.m. PST

Consistent sizes within scales- Once you put the figures down on the table top you never notice this.

I am one of the "well, people are of different heights" (and lots of other variation in body morphology) people. But I also realize that you can see a difference, and you can notice it easily in some cases. But then again, for some minis, you can notice a difference in body morphology in different minis from the same manufacturer that are the "same scale".

However, the issue with scales is not rejecting differences in body morphology (though some people do that). The issue is that unless you only buy in person and lug a bunch of sample figures around with you and the location allows you to take figures out of their pack (and possibly off the sprue, too) and compare them, you don't really know what you're getting until you've already got it.

In the case of model trains, there can be a lot of incompatibility across lines. But you know (with very rare and outlying exception) whatever you buy will at least fit on the track and run. For us, the minimum standard of compatibility is not, just, hey I can put it on a bas, a paint it, and gravity will keep it on the table.

Buff Orpington24 Jul 2016 2:11 p.m. PST

The smell

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