"Do you like 2300AD / Traveller 2300 / 2320AD?" Topic

On the SF discussion board, there was a comment made that Traveller 2300, or now 2300AD was a good game. Any reviews? Do people enjoy it? How does it work? Is it dark-future earth, or is it also space-travel minded?

Any info would help.

THANKS!

I thought the mechanics were well done, but the background left me a little cold. I especially didn't enjoy the cycber punk direction they took at the end.

For me it was the opposite - my group loved the setting (at least the pre-Cyberpunk version anyway), but disliked the rules. We converted it to a GDW House System ruleset and had a great campaign for almost three years.

The only things from the original rules we kept was the equipment (suitably converted) and the starship combat rules (Star Cruiser was a GREAT space combat ruleset; sort of like Harpoon in space in some ways)

It looked good, it read good, but it didn't play good - or often. I stopped buying stuff right after it went cyberpunk. Not that the wetware didn't make sense, it just took the whole thing off on a tangent.

There was also a rather large lack of players.

I finally sold all of that stuff last year at Strategicon.

Wyatt

Good background but relatively poor mechanics. For what was supposed to be a hard-SF game, the mechanics (combat mechanics especially) really did not support the setting.

I'll also echo Wyatt's comments about the cyberpunk taking stuff off tangent. It took away from the "humanity fighting to keep its foothold in space" theme, which was what brought me to the game in the first place.

I think you'll like the setting, and some of the descriptions of weaponry and spacecraft of the various Terran nations, as well as the star map, but don't expect a great deal from the mechanics.

Yeah, we tried out the original release of 2300AD and loved it, but the mechanics were somewhat off-putting (as I remember, they slowed the game down quite a bit) so we substituted mechanics from Palladium's series. I really enjoyed the military technology and the group enjoyed playing 2300 kind of like "Twilight 2000 The Sequel". Once they went cyberpunk, though, we pretty much cashed out and turned to Shadowrun and Dark Conspiracy. There were way too many cyberpunk RPG's coming out right then; I'm not sure why GDW felt they had to jump on that particular bandwagon at that time.

Pretty much the same as RJ above. The group loved Traveller when it first came out, and played it for years. 2300 less so, but the equipment and spacecraft were well thought out. We all switched over to D6 Star Wars RPG, as the characterization and game flow were IMHO much better and quicker, if not as hard.

I'm looking forward to 2320 AD when QLI puts it out in a few months.

travellerrpg.com/2320

I liked it very much. The 1st edition rules (Traveller:2300 - recognisable by the grey box and picture of two people standing on the cover) were a litlle sketchy in places, but were still well thought out and very playable. The 2nd edition rules (2300AD - black box with an american marine in armour on the front) provided some rules tweeks, much more background and universe information and an experience system which was missing from the 1st book. 2320AD is a new 'universe book' for the Traveler T20 system. It's in final production at the moment and is due out in July, I believe.

The rules probably equate to 1st Ed Twilight 2000 in complexity. Most actions are acheived using a task resolution system, with a skill level acting as a modifier to a d10 (or 2d6, I think, in the optional rules) roll. The resulting total would then give varying degrees of sucess, with a certain level required for passing the test. If there was no applicable skill, then a modifier from one of the stats would be used.

Character generation was term based, each term giving a d 10 worth of skill points. You had to test to remain in the chosen career at the end of each term, but no dying as in Traveller.

Combat was reasonably fast once you got the hang of it, with a few idiosyncracies - most weapons had a damage code given as a decimal 0.5 for instance, and many times you were told to multiply this by 10 and roll under it. Why not just adjust the system so it was 5? Ranged combat could be very, very leathal but i seem to recall that melee and H2H seemed to take ages.

System, star, planet, colony and animal generation were all very detailed and produced some good results with a little effort. The ship combat annex, Star Cruiser, included a full naval architechts manual for an equally detaild starship design system. Starships were large, expansive and rare enough that PC's were NEVER likely to own their own, just like most people these days don't own a Boeing 747.

The technology level is in advance of our own, but there are no superscience mcguffins. Whilst there were lasers and plasma weapons, most weapons were still projectile slugthrowers, a ver, very detailed mix of gauss, binary propelleant and conventional. No artificial gravity (ships in 2300AD had rotating sections long before B5 made it poular), no force fields, no teleporters/transporters, no faster than light communications. The star drive, stutterwarp, is the only real 'break the laws of physics' device and it is based on a sound principle, the electron tunneling effect (moving from here to here instantaneously without passing through the intervening space ).

The aliens, of which there were 5 or 6 non-playable races, are very alien, not just guys in rubber suits. Their motivations and actions were completely incomprehensible to many humans, because they were ALIENS.First contact with two races had led to war, one which we won and discovered we had suddenly become responsible for educating the loosers as to why, in their eyes, and another which was ongoing, and not going well.

The original direction of the game was exploration and adventure. The first few publised adventures reflected this, surviving being marooned on an alien world, acting as troubleshooters on a beanstalk (orbital tether), dealing with incomprehensible alien natives on a distant colony world and a rather skimpy campaign setting for a trip out of human space. The ongoing war then became the focus, starting with an adventure dealing with a previously occupied planet, still infested with hostile aliens (Kafer Dawn) An excellent sourcebook on the same world followed (Aurore SOurcebook) and then a number of adventures dealing with the war (Mission: Arcturus, Invasion, Operation:Overlord).

Other sourcebooks detailed vehicles, equipment, starships, a colonial atlas and a more in-depth look at the Kafers.

Following the sucess of Cyberpunk 2020, GDW decided to jump on the bandwagon and released three cyberpunk themed sourcebooks and adventures, Eart/Cybertech sourcebook, Rotten to the Core and The Deathwatch Program. They were passable in and of themselves, but the rules and background were obviously tacked on and jarred with the tone which had already been set.

The line suffered from 2 problems: too many supplements that were based around military operations (but the ongoing Kafer (a nasty alien) War was a major part of the storyline) and the obviously ill-fitting cyberpunk elements. The combination of these two, with the general down-turn in RPG sales at the end of the 80's and GDW's problems elsewhere, led the line to die until re-ssurected for T20 by QLI.

G.

Enjoyed the background and setting, disliked the mechanics, fely un-finished.

I liked the game and setting. It avoided the "deadly sins" of SF background such as :

1) The Galactic Empire is the only form of government and Earth is a one-nation planet

2300AD assumed that Earth never united and the various nations are still competing for power. The whole game felt more like the colonial era of 1890.

2) Even if you have phasers, meson guns, desintegrators and possibly hundreds of deadly weapons to kill in a zero-g thin-skinned starship, everybody is still toting SWORDS !!!

etc.

It was hard to be anything but a paramilitary type and the Cyberpunk extension was "tacked on" and didn't really work, but it wasn't mandatory either. One of the scenarios was very much in the vein of Arthur C Clarke's work.

The game system was a bit heavy, but worked like clockwork, with very precise rules and few modifiers, feats and combos to make life more difficult.

Overall it was a firm favorite in our gaming group. Some of the tech and style does look dated by now, but the essential background is rich enough to keep it going for years.

I wonder how the Kafer war is going (or ended), as it was implied that it was a no-win situation for humanity ...

I loved Traveller 2300 and ran various campaigns. Brilliant background and that star map has proved soooooo useful over tyhe years.

I don't remember the mechanics being clunky or slow, but then the other games I was playing at the time were stuff like AD&D first ed and Aftermath, so T2300 would have been incredibly versatile compared to the former and faster than a speeding bullet compared to the latter.

I tended to run a mixture of my own games and supplements. I used most of the cyberpunk ones in a GURPS cyberpunk campaign, rather than in the T2300 campaigns. I ignored their version of the Kafer, as they were too slow off the mark and I already had my own written into the campaign by the time the supplements started coming out.

Never had a problem with any paramilitary PC bias - I ran campaigns for journalists and for scientists/explorers.

Loved this game. Really loved the background. I was a huge player of Twilight 2000, and really got into this game.

I recall a long time ago there were minis that were supposed to be released for that game (Dark Horse Miniatures I think???) but I've never seen any other than the 2 preview figs in a magazine.

Some of the GZG vehicles look straight out of the Vehicles & Equipment Sourcebook.

CmdrKiley,

Check out Brigade Models' vehicles - some of them are a spitting image of the 2300 ones.

Still love Traveller and Twilight 2000. Never got my mitts on 2300.

The miniatures were made by a company called "Gold Ring" if I remember correctly. I still have a couple of Legionaires around someplace...

As mentioned above, I loved the game but had difficulty with the mecahnics. I could never get the combat to run smoothly, but that could just be me.

I enjoyed the idea of a non-Anglophone universe (the linga franca is.. er well French), but had problems with the background which is too obviously simply thr 19th century re-run. But, it was tweakable and was a pleasent change from Americo-centric RPGs.

I also loved Aurore as a setting - finally someone who at least seemed to have some notion of the way a planetary ecology works!

Looking forward to the new release, but am wondering about the nature of the required catastrophe to allow the French to come out on top as we don't seem to be on the edge of a nuclear catastrophe now, thank goodness.

Back in the day, when I used to write for GDW, I seem to remember the company telling me that there was something "wrong" with Star Cruiser - that it needed a rules fix of some kind.

I never knew what the problem was - just got the impression they were going to fix it in the next edition, and they didn't want me to work on Star Cruiser scenarios until then.

And I don't recall GDW ever putting out a 2nd edition (before they went under).

There are a number of problems with Star Cruiser when you compare it to the RPG ship combat system, the ship speeds don't match up as the hex sizes changed, but speeds didn't. Also a number of the designs arent actually acheivable using the construction rules, and some of the bigger ships are so massivly armoured and protected that they can't realistically be destroyed within the course os a reasonable sized scenario.

There are several errata floating about on the internet and a number of design mods and rules mods to correct the problems, but realistically, if you are considering the RPG, then starship combat is mostly beyond the scale of individual PC's to influence. It has been described as hide and seek with bazookas.

G.

Bill, your my idol. You wrote for Traveller AND you run the miniatures page. I actually contacted Mark Miller about a piece that I am writing. I'm holding off for T5 now though.

Well, maybe I'll try 2300. If nothing else, the background would be a fun way to use the Traveller mechanic.

However, I can imagine why we are loosing to the Kafer. If the French control human space, their long heralded "surrender" strategy might have new application. That said, no one makes better wine, cheese, or reduction glazes. ;-)

The French don't control human space in 2300, any more than the US controls Earth now (despite what they may want you to think...), but like the US today, the French are the dominant superpower.

I've also been lucky enough to see the playtest files for 2320AD and the background, so I know what happens with the war and how it plays out between 2300 and 2320. Its a doozy of a tale...

G.

C'mon Goober! You con't just leave us hangin'! Unless you have signed a confidentiality agreement, you gotta give us a hint. C'mon.

BTW, was the playtest good? What did you think of the rules? Were you familiar with 2300? Are the changes good/bad/pure marketing?

I can't tell you I'm afraid, but, whilst avoiding morphing into a sock puppet, I will say that I am very familiar with the 2300 rules and background and I feel pretty comfortable with what has transpired. The author has done some excellent work updating the storyline and has taken on board the feedback of the playtesters.

The rules change the system to use a slightly modified version of T20, the modifications mainly having to do with the differing technology levels and design ethos and how combat works. The background has been updated well and presents many new opportunities for gaming in both familiar settings and a number of new ones. It builds on what has gone before in a logical manner, whilst still having a few unexpectd suprises...

G.

We played TW:2000 from the 1st edition on for about 5 years, and naturally jumped at 2300AD when it first came out. In comparision to other game systems at the time, both were a breath of fresh air. Straight forward, easy to learn and quick playing in my opinion. The backgrounds were rich and easy to build off of. I sure miss those days. In retrospect, the trend toward easier rules and quicker play has probably passed them by but they are no less great games for it. I dont roleplay anymore but this thread sure brought up some great memories. "Like the time we had a run with these pirates while pulling a security detail for this small inter-space transport company and....."

Thanks for the positive comments on 2320AD. I did my best to be true to the background whilst moving it forward. Some of the cyberpunk elements were retained (cyberware) some weren't (Netrunning, cyberpunk theme in general). The aim was to get it closer to it's roots, with adventures touching not just on the military aspects of the game, but also on exploration, colonization, and intrigue.

2300AD was always one of my favorite settings, though back in the day I did convert the rules to GDW's House Rules system.

Yes, I have noticed many similiarites in some of GZGs vehicles and 2300's vehicles, not to mention Brigade Miniatures.

I hope in the future to produce both a starship wargame and a planetary wargame, but there are RPG books to come out first.

Colin Dunn
2320AD writer and line editor

I loved the original pre-cyber punk background though i did not like the rules set at all and generally used 2300 as a back ground for a few CT games i ran. i remember seeinf somewhere that the first edition of 2300 was called Traveller 2300.

as a side note would be nice to see a D20 2300 or a CT inspired 2300 rules set. I would probably buy the first and diffanantly the second. Also would be nice to see the aliens from 2300 brought into the larger traveller universe as minor races in the solomani sphere.

I actually agree Jamus! I think if both were developed, why not sue them. I think Traveller needs more sophonts anyway though...

The 2320AD rules are based on Traveller T20, which is an OGL d20 game.

2300AD and 2320AD are part of a seperate universe to CT/Mega Traveller/TNE, and so neither will ever cross over (and a good thing IMHO). 2320AD is not the early histrory of the Solomani leading up to the interstellar wars. There are no Vilani lurking in our neighborhood in 23XX, just grumpy Kafers. However, with the release of 2320AD you should be able to use the 23XX aliens in a normal T20 game - the two will be compatible.

G.

and yet the game was originally called traveller 2300 and follows/progresses the same story line started in twilight 2000. So why not bring 2300 into the fold with the rest of the traveller line? in one fell stroke you would have a common game system <d20 or CT derived or both> describing a number of adventure settings on one time-line.The marketing benifits are pretty obvious as many hard core CT/T20 fans would run out to buy T2300 just for sake of completeness.

Also its not as if CT canon would have to reworked overly much and t2000 2300 would remain unchanged granting us one universe with endless adventure in many different eras.

Im sorry but i am not seeing a downside to that.

Goober, I know that you are right. That said, I am not sure why there should not be an "early" Traveller game. If this 2320 game were tied into Traveller, I would LOVE to play it and would certainly buy it. On the other hand, if 2320 has a compelling story line, I'll try that too. But if they have an easy way to use the T4 or Classic Traveller mechanic, I am more likely to pick it up. The fact is that I really like the Traveller system because of its versatility and playability. I don't like T20, because I don't like D20.

Well, issues of d20/T20 mechanics aside there are a few issues which I have with the idea that the 23xxAD universe could be tied into Traveller:

Firstly, part of the background to 2300AD was that it was Humanities struggle agains a hostile universe. The terrifying thing about the Kafer war is that the Kafers really, really want to destroy humanity. We are the 'smart barbarian' bogeyman of their nightmares that have come to life. Everything that they are tells them we have to be destroyed. There can be no quarter with us because we are smarter than them and we will kill them, that's what the smart barbarian has always done. Kafers breed much, much faster than humans and they stand a very good chance of wiping us out. Completely. This rather becommes a moot point if there is a massive Vilani empire out there that can swat the Kafers like a bug. It makes the grand endeavours of humanity seem pale in comparison. There is no bold frontier to explore, no furthering of human exploration when we find a ready made empire of 11,000 worlds waiting for us.

Secondly, Traveller is space opera. Reactionless thrusters, grav plates, jump space, psionics and the other traveller trappings don't mesh with the hard sci-fi of 23XXAD.

Thirdly, there are cannon problems: In Traveller history, Earth should be united by the timeframe of 23XX, under what will eventually become the Solomani Confederation. The first contact with the Vilani is at an outpost of theirs at either Alpha Centauri or Barnards Star IIRC. Both are well developed colony worlds in 23XXAD

Fourthly, Stutterwarp is much faster than low level Jump drives and much, much faster than any M-drives available in traveller. Why abandon that to go with the sluggish gravplates or HEPLAR thrusters?

Finally, I think it detracts from the uniqueness of the setting and diminishes the originality of the game to morph it into a prequel for another gameline.

The point is, however, rather moot. QLI have categorically stated that there is and will be no crossover, that Traveller and 2300AD will remain seperate and distinct universes. But, none of the points I have raised are insurmountable, and if anybody feels that the game should be played as a prequel, any competent GM can find workarounds for them all.

G.

Hi Guys,

I really liked Traveller 2300.

Kafers are cool!

Shalom,

Maksim-Smelchak.

Goober, you bring up some interesting points. Since i know nothing about 2300AD, your arguments have persuaded me.

I do disagree that Traveller is a space opera. The classic space opera is star wars, and Traveller is certainly nowhere near that. While it might have more elements of opera than 2300AD, it is by no means a space opera.

Guess I gotta buy a new damn game universe! Goober, and others, what is the best book to start with? Basic Book? I see some on Ebay...

True, Traveler is positivly a physics lecture compared to Star Wars, but I like the very hard sci-fi feel of 2300 and compared to that Traveler is quite operatic.

Don't get me wrong, I like Traveler. I have all my Traveler LBB's stashed away here, and I have 3 of the QLI re-prints as well. I think i was also probably one of the two or three people who actually liked TNE... I just like 2300 more.

The 2300AD boxed set is available as a .PDF from Drive Thru RPG. 2320AD is going to be available in the next few months, for D20 style goodness, see the link in Colins post above. Drive Thru is at:

link

After that it depends on the direction you want to take.

Beanstalk and the KaferDawn are good starting adventures, Beanstalk for troubleshooter types and Kafer Dawn for mercenary/military.

For a more military game I'd go for Kafer Dawn and the Aurore Sourcebook - a whole campaign full of adventure there. AFter that is Mission Arcturus and Operation Overlord. Essential information on the Kafer War is given in Invasion, and more details of the Kafer, their space, culture, plans, motivations and equipment is in the aptly titled Kafer Sourcebook.

Exploration and alien interaction are covered in Bayern, although really that is the bare outline for a campaign, Ranger and to a lesser extent Nyotekundu sourcebook. Ranger is set on a Texan colony and Nyotekundu on a hostile planet and an orbital mining station.

Background information is given in the Colonial Atlas, Ships of the French Arm, the Equipment Guide and The Vehicle Guide. They aren't essential reading, although Colonial Atlas does give a great deal of useful information on the worlds humanity has managed to live on. I'd pick them up only if you find the initial boxed set to be interesting.

Naval combat is covered in more detail in the Star Cruiser boxed set, which includes the NAM (naval archietechts manual)

Finally, the Cyberpunk arc is covered by Earth/Cybertech sourcebook, Rotten to the Core (probably the best of them, and not a bad supplement IMHO) and The Deathwatch Program.

Good websites to look at are Pentapods World and Etranger (google should get them both in one or two hits). Pentapods has a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff, including some old Challenge adventures and articles and a lot of the Star Cruiser errata and mods. Etranger is mostly about the Military in 2300, but you should take a look just for the lavish CGI images.

Have fun.

G.

I wouldnt call 2300 hard science, i seem to remember living motorcycles and biological breathermasks. also the concept that france would be least affected of all the major nations and fastest to recover from a war in europe is somewhat of a stretch.

Can someone please explain what relationship (if any) the T20 system has to the d20 system? Is T20 level based and full of Feats and ever increasing hit points???

T20 is based on d20, its an OGL game.

It has levels and feats, but no hitpoints. Instead it uses Lifeblood and Stamina. All attacks against you reduce your stamina, which increases by level, regardless of any armour. You then remove individual dice of damage according to how much armour you have and apply the results to lifeblood, representing leathal damage. So, if a character is hit by an attack which does 5, 7 and 6 points of damage and has level 2 armour, they take 18 points of stamina damage immediately and the armour would negate the 5 and the 6, leaving 7 points of lifeblood damage. If the armor is greater than the number of damage dice then the remainder is deducted from the highest die, so if the armour had been 5 in the example above the chracter would have taken 4 points of lifeblood damage (5 and 6 removed, leaving 3 points of armour, 7-3=4).

The system means that all attacks have the potential to cause potentially mortal (lifeblood) damage, but also takes into account fatiuge and non-leathal or stunning damage (stamina). A character may be able to negate all of the damage from an attack, but still be stunned or exhausted by the loss of Stamina.

The result is that any damage, save those which only specifically target stamina, has the potential to inflict leathal damage.

BAB progressions are somewhat slower, with only one class getting the 'Good' BAB range, IIRC. Classes are also functional rather than limited to profession, so you could be in the Marines career and take a few levels of rouge and administrator classes to make up a wiley supply officer.

G.

James Jamus, I don't remember anything about living motorcycles. It certainly isn't mentioned in any of the rulebooks or supplements I have. There was a biological swim mask, but I don't think that that is beyond the realms of a race of biotechnologists to achieve - I remeber seeing a section on Tomorrows World (a science TV show in the UK) about a rebreather that used cultured cells from a fish gill to operate the gas exchange.

The background for France dominationg the world was linked to the Twilight 2000 game, where France was relativly untouched by the Twilight War, (WW3) as it remained neutral, and thus was able to recover quicker than the other nations. The fighting mostly took place in East Germany and Poland and France was spared the destruction of key infrastructures which crippled the other European countries. It also maintained a cohesive government where the outher countries fell apart. Of course, this was all written in the 1980's, and we can look on it with mirth 25 years later, but it seemed plausible at the time.

G

Goober - thanks for the info. Now I have to balance my love of the T2000 and T2300 universe versus my loathing of the d20 system (in all the incarnations of it that I've ever played) and see if I will shell out cash for the new shiny T2320.

"The background for France dominationg the world was linked to the Twilight 2000 game, where France was relativly untouched by the Twilight War, (WW3) as it remained neutral, and thus was able to recover quicker than the other nations."

Don't forget the outcome of the "Great Game:" The military/economic wargame that Marc Miller and Company played to determine the background of the 2300 AD universe.

There's a freebie lite version of the t20 rules here:
link

I liked 2300AD, likely more than Traveller though it's harder to get players for, but thought the setting veered too much on the Kafer War to the exclusion of other types of campaigns.

HTH.

BOUGHT 2300 AND THE VARIOUS ADD-ONS. DID NOT LIKE THE COMBAT RULES.

LIKE THE 1800S "COLONIAL EXPANSION AND EXPLORATION MEETS ALIENS FLICK" FEEL TO THE BACKGROUND , ETC.

USED THIS STUFF, LIKE TRAVELLER BEFORE IT, AS BASIS FOR TABLETOP RPG GAMING.

USED A VERY MODIFIED FORM OF RT RULES FOR MINIATURES COMBAT IN THIS UNIVERSE.

I COULD NEVER ACTUALLY PLAY SPACE OPERA, ALLEGEDLY THE MAIN RIVAL OF TRAVELLER, TOO DAMNED COMPLICATED, BUT THE BACK GROUND WAS ALL RIGHT

DAWGIE

Yah know guys you can use the background and a rule system that works if you want to play any game.

While yes we can mostly agree that T20 is broken on it's face the background is still usable, and of course most of the originals are being reprinted so you could just use them.

BTW, for those who are gonna get upset about my statement that t20 is broken, this opinion comes from actually playing the game no just anti-d20 bias. The claim on using the OGL for traveller was broken on it's excution, that book needs help. I after lookng through it and trying to generate a basic character being and ordeal (think a marine with 2 terms taking 3+ hour to generate) combat is very wonky also, way to many odd bends in the basic d20 combat to try to capture the feel of MT combat (which was also broken btw) interupt the flow. In some ways it takes a simple system and adds needly untought out complexity. Or think a DBx seris rules set.

But all thing being equal this is just one gamers opinion.