"Historicon: No Flea Market during Vendor hours! " Topic

OK, Just got back from Historicon, and want to restart this debate. There is a problem (Degree of problem depends upon your perspective) and the solution is simple. Simply put, it is this: The Vendor Hall is sparsely attended while the Flea Market, aka Wally's Basement, is open at Historicon (or any of the other HMGS cons.)

For the record, I am an attending vendor at all three HMGS-East cons, but have also purchased tables in the past as flea marketer. Frankly, I love both. So why not have both? My comments are based upon discussions with many other vendors, who universally despair of the lack of business during these conflicting hours.

My solution is this: Have the flea market, aka Wally's, open when the Vendor Hall is not! In practical terms, this means that Wally's could undertake evening hours, as in Thursday, Friday and Saturday evening. I have no objection to the free Sunday morning free-for-all.

Benefits, IMHO, are many:
1) Much more time for everyone to shop. This would actually encourage day visitors who wish to shop to stay longer, to sample both the vendor area and the flea area.
2) Allow options for vendors to have a flea market table and vice versa. I sell both new stuff and used stuff… I should be able to do both,
3) Eliminate the direct competition between the two, while allowing indirect competition for your dollars.

What do you think?

Daniel Broh-Kahn
Six Sided Simulations

No.
The times the flea market could be open would be after 6:00 PM.

Like many or maybe most flea marketers, I plough more than half of what I make back into the dealers.

I attend both Cold Wars and Fall In and I see the dealer hall well attended during both conventions. Perhaps Historicon is unique (no snarky comments please)?

I think we should keep them both open during the day. However, what if the dealers were exclusive on Friday (assuming a three day convention)? Wally's basement would be open Saturday and Sunday with the dealers.

Just an idea – I'm looking forward to feedback on this one.

If it means more business for the vendors then yes. The show needs to encourage vendors as they have huge overheads to cover,

I see that Brookhurst did not attend this year.

martin

The amount of money I spent in the dealer area only depended on availability of what I wanted, not if the flea market was open. I have run flea market tables very successfully, then took the money straight to the dealer area. One year, a dealer bought a bunch of my troops in the morning and displayed them for sale in the dealer area that afternoon. It didn't bother me in the least either.

From the looks of things, many of the flea market tables were taken up by smaller dealers without sign displayed.

Why not limit the number of games run during the dealer hall hours…Surely there are more people gathered around gaming tables during the day than even in the flea market… Force them to move through the dealer area and spend money before they can game. :P

Perhaps building attendance to historically higher levels would be a better strategy than limiting the options of the existing attendance.

Cold Steel hit the nail on the head. And so did AllegoryoftheCave. The hours both are open is not really an issue. The dealer hall is already open three hours longer than the flea market! The dealers have different items for sale, and their items are sold in a different way than the flea market. The flea market is a treasure hunt, the dealer hall is a grocery list. The flea market is an eclectic chaotic mess, the dealer hall is an organized and orderly arrangement. The two serve different needs that, contrary to the vibe from some people, do not conflict with one another. It doesn't take the same amount of time or effort to shop the dealer hall as it does the flea market. It takes real, actual effort to dig through the flea market. It doesn't take anywhere near the same amount of time to shop the dealer hall. Like AllegoryoftheCave said, should we also cease all games during the dealer hall hours as well? Don't a ton of people get sucked away to games during the times the dealer hall is open?

At the start of each day the line to get into the dealer area is down the hall and around the corner. Tons of people que up to get in. But the way they shop is different I imagine, they know what they want and where to find it, they go and get it, and continue on their way. The same thing happens in the flea market, people que up and the giant mob descends initially, then it peters out as well. There are plenty of times that the flea market is pretty dead as well, and many people I saw said they had to leave to go to a game and couldn't shop any longer. The games also conflict with both areas.

And just as a side note this year I spent a few thousand in the dealer hall, and every single penny I made in the flea market. I would have spent zero of that amount had I not had a flea market table. I know a dozen other guys who were to varying degrees the same. If people keep trying to tinker with the flea market to work with one group that attends the convention you run the risk of impacting the flow of money from the flea market into the dealers pockets.

The hours of the two areas is not the issue, if you are having trouble selling product or attracting customers it might in fact have more to do with the product you are selling, the way you are selling it, the overall market itself (internet, conventions in general, attendance overall, etc etc etc) than simply the existence of the flea market at the same time.

This is a solution in search of a problem. But if you want a solution to the perception that the flea market is the issue (it's not) the answer isn't to make the flea market harder for people to sell in by changing the hours to late at night, it's to bring the two together. Why not have the dealer hall and the flea market in the same area? Foot traffic problem solved.

Agree the OP proposal is a bad idea.

I also agree that direct competition is a myth. I rarely see the same kinds of things in both areas. The "treasure hunt" vs. "shopping list" analogy is an excellent summary.

Speaking of conventions generally (not just Historicon), the drain of bodies from the vendor area also affects the gaming areas, which bothers me as a GM and a player too – many games just stop or fail to start because of the start of the flea market. I ascribe this phenomenon to short and precisely scheduled flea markets; if there is only one short flea market per day, a giant crowd gathers to flood in when it opens to get the best deals, draining bodies from the rest of the convention and creating a crowd-control issue. A flea market that runs all day has much lighter crowds, causes attendees to check back often to see what's new (sellers only stay for a few hours), and makes negotiations and browsing less hectic, less damaging, and more relaxed. At least one Historicon I attended (2000-2002) seemed to have this model of flea market, or something similar. I liked it.

I'm curious why Historicon limits the vendor area to badged attendees. Why isn't the vendor area open to the general public?

- Ix

If you think you are going to have more sales if the flea market is only after 6 your are deluding yourselves.

That would mean they only have half as many flea marketers, since they would only have one market session per day instead of two. Or they could ADD a third market session in the evenings.

No. No as in not even to be considered, and I might have to rethink attendance if the BOD were to be so foolish.

So we reduce the flea market to Friday and Saturday evenings, wiping out the free Sunday market altogether? Even though with three paid-table flea market sessions, we don't have room for everyone who wants a table? And we do this to accommodate--no, I won't say it.

Daribuck, I can, generally, buy whatever I want which is in production and shiny new without the trouble and expense of a 1,000+ mile round trip to pick it up. I attend a convention to meet friends, attend classes and lectures, watch games--all done during dealers' hours!--to unload my mistakes, and to wander the Aladdin's Cave which is Wally's Basement. The dealers, not the flea marketeers, are secondary.

But, I have an alternate proposal: we start charging those dealers more who stock nothing related to historical miniatures gaming, and charge those dealers less who do support the HMGS mission.

Has anyone tried buying a 15mm figure at one of the major conventions lately? I bought every Norman and Anglo-Saxon for sale at Cold Wars and I didn't come home with two DBA armies. And most of those figures which are there are sold in mystery bags--nothing but a catalog code on the bag, and "I know we have a catalog around here somewhere." As an old retailer, I sometimes find the Dealers Hall a professional embarrassment.

Sell me things to improve my game. Mark your stock. Try to deliver things you've taken orders for. Don't ignore customers while having long talks with friends. I came home with money in my pocket from Cold Wars, and it wasn't because I spent all my time in the Flea Market. It was because the dealers didn't want that money very much.

NO to the OP. But an idea to help the vendors is don't charge admission to get into the vendor area.

I used to attend the east coast shows. I specialized in 15mm Historicals. Baueda, Black Hat, Warmodelling / Fantassin, QRF etc. etc. Broke even 1/3 of the time, lost money otherwise. So I stopped going.

Reduced table cost couldn't hurt but tables were only about 10% of the cost to attend. Even free table space could not have put me on the right side of the ledger.

I did worry that there were a lot of (not) dealers in the flea market. Last time I saw a guy clearing out game store stock. It had the store's name right on the darn sticker.

I like the flea market too. But if I spend $250 USD in the flea market that's money I'm not spending in the dealer's hall.

I think the analogy is: dealer's hall is a super market. The flea market is like a farmer's market.

@jpipes… 90% in agreement with you.

My two out-of-sync thoughts/options are a) possibly co-locating dealers with, or nearer to, the flea market or b) limiting flea market participants to having two tables in each of two sessions, not allowing flea marketeers to be in all sessions, in order to prevent shadow businesses in the flea market. Those running a business, whether selling new or used products, should be in the dealer area. (I note the fellow Brian in the dealer hall selling only used products… and him walking thru the flea market making purchases which he then put in his booth.)

Vendors and flea market participants both contribute something unique to the convention experience.

two cents worth.

oooops, an alibi fire.

I really think there is value in @BrigadeGames idea "Painting/Terrain competition – as I said – move it to the vendor hall and expand it. How about an "Iron Brush" competition in the middle of the gaming hall Saturday night? Take a few manufacturers and let us pick a figure from our range and have a timed competition between painters."

That would add some life to the vendor hall.

Not a chance. That means the flea market will only be open from 6 or 7 till 9 or 10. Do you honestly expect everyone, both gamers and flea marketers to give up their night games to attend and have their night over by 7:30? No way.

Dealers do get first crack on Thursday and the initial line for the dealer hall is all the way down the hall. I spent $160 USD in the dealer hall, and only $75 USD or so in the flea market. I came with $500 USD to spend, and ended up leaving with half of it. I have a specific list of things I want or need and a price I'm willing to pay and if I don't see it then I don't buy it. Sure there are a few impulse buys, like the Cigar Box battlemat I picked up from BTC but generally nothing is going to change that. I looked for Fireforge Games figures and not a single dealer was selling them now that AoW went bankrupt, except a few boxes at Sgt. Major that weren't the Teutonics I was looking for. So it'll be off to the internet to find them. Oh well.

What needs to be looked at is the "professional fleamarketers" who attend session after session convention after convention hawking the same new stuff every time. Worse, a very few (you know damn well who you are) who look around to see what other people are setting up while at their own booth, then grabbing things from other flea marketers to mark up at their own set ups. I find it rather odious behavior.

When a guy has been attending every session at the flea market with a table, and then still has enough to cover 5 free Sunday tables full of brand new GHQ stuff for sale with enough stock to completely cover those tables, that person needs to be told to take it to the dealer hall.

2) Allow options for vendors to have a flea market table and vice versa. I sell both new stuff and used stuff… I should be able to do both

I don't understand why you can't, because I saw the dice guys (forget their names), Atlantis games, and others doing exactly that.

Flea Market on Friday and Saturday night at midnight or just one of the nights (Okay, maybe 2200hrs) call it "Midnight Madness". On that night the flea market doesn't hold its late afternoon session, instead it opens it doors at 10pm. Most gaming is wrapped up by then and gives the vendors an entire block of time allotted just for them…

I believe that if the flea market was tinkered with in that way it would further alienate more folks which HMGS cannot afford to lose. The dealers would also suffer due to the lack of recirculated dollars. Folks would be amazed how important the flea market is to the overall con.
IMO, a very,very bad idea to have the FM at night…

Never understood why dealers supposedly weren't allowed to have tables in the flea market. And by that I mean the folks in the dealer hall if they want to have a flea market table, let them. In addition how many tables a person gets over the convention should be of no concern to anyone else. Plenty of people come with a lot of stuff to sell, and seeing as we only get an 8ft table with no racks, shelves, or under table selling, that isn't exactly a lot of real estate to get things sold. It takes lots of people the entire show to sell off what they bring. That's been my experience as well. By the end of each show I have nothing or next to nothing left that I came with but it takes many sessions to do that.

As for the comment that $250 USD spent in the flea market is $250 USD not spent in the dealer hall, well that individual himself may not have spent *HIS* $250 USD in the dealer hall as a result of his personal choice of where to spend that money, but the person it went to in many cases DID take that money to the dealers and spent it. I know that is what I did this weekend. People gave me their money, and I took that money and spent it in the dealer hall.

Re:reducing the number of evening games--a definite NO to this. However, I could get behind a third Wally's session late Saturday night, say from say, 9:30 – 11:30, or 10-midnight. This would allow those with a Sat. night game to get in a last run, especially if they're leaving that night.
I concur with keeping the vendors' costs down, perhaps by reducing their overhead, or offering a "grandfather clause" discounting their fees by the number of HMGS events they set up for in the last 2-3 years. (5%/con in the last 3 years off? Could be up to 45% discount. Or,10%/con in the last 2 years? Up to 60% discount.) Think that would be enough incentive to keep/bring vendors?

After all of these years, HMGS East does not give a rip about the vendors. Change the way it is done. No dealers should not have tables in the flea market. Give me a break, they can have hours in the flea market around the vendor hours. If your are there for a trade show and want to buy or sell at the flea market, then you will be there at any time it is specified. After hours or a midnight madness sale as mentioned will work. You are there for the weekend so let's be more flexible. The dealers cannot and should not be sitting there with no foot traffic or sales because of the flea market. Without the dealers what are you going to have?

Foot traffic in the dealer hall is impacted by games people are taking part in as much if not far more than the flea market. And foot traffic is also impacted by what I stated earlier, people shop there very differently, they don't stroll around casually for hours. It's a tactical strike. People have shopping lists, things to pick up waiting for them, dealers they know they want to see, etc. That doesn't require 9 hours, so of course people will filter away over the day to do other things. You really expect all attendees to spend all their time in the dealer hall and do nothing else?

Without the dealers what are you going to have?

When you annoy enough people into not attending the convention, what are you going to have?

No convention.

To me it seems like 80%+ of the foe market tables were occupied by the same people all weekend long? Love the idea of an evening flea market? 2-3 hours after the afternoon one closes?

SFC Retired

Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. That's why you see guys in the flea market with brand-new stock in large quantities. Some of them also see an advantage in getting a prime location at a fraction of the cost of a booth. They know the flea market generates excitement while the dealer hall can often be dead, especially in the afternoon when everyone is gaming. So dealers in the flea market area have an inherent competitive advantage over dealers in the dealer hall.

I recommend one large dealer hall with no flea market at all. Lower the table fees considerably, same price for dealers or flea marketers. No pipe and drape, just tables. In other words, handle it like the toy soldier shows do. Let the "amateur" sit next to the "professional" and pay the same price.

Put the flea market guy with stacks of ratty-looking boxes right next to the manufacturer with the elaborate display. I don't care.

Flea market guy doesn't want to spend a whole weekend at a table? I don't care.

One hall for all!

To me it seems like 80%+ of the foe market tables were occupied by the same people all weekend long?

I'm totally okay with placing some kind of limit of sessions or tables per convention.

Like no more than 2 sessions (so someone can pick their 1 day to hawk their stuff) or 4 total tables over all sessions fr the whole convention at Historicon or some kind of limit.

I just got back from Historicon and work the dealer hall I would love to get to the flea market but can't how about just shifting the two sessions to the right, the afternoon would be the first session and the second would start at 7pm. We were bored Saturday night the lack of games was bad this would draw people to the gaming halls again. Just another idea.

There are far more people gaming and not spending time in the dealer hall than people spending all day in the flea market. The flea market generally has a crowd the first 30-60 minutes it opens, then goes flat. Messing with the flea market will just reduce total attendance, period. Then see how many people are in the dealer hall.
You need to increase advertising, drop cost of 1 day admission, offer reduced admission for first timers, and other deals to get more gamers, etc.
At one of the last cons I wanted to bring my daughter, but she is a non-member so it would have cost $45 USD (if I remember correctly) for a one day ticket. So did not bring her. Should have been a better rate for a one-day, non-member ticket.

" Some of them also see an advantage in getting a prime location at a fraction of the cost of a booth."

This myth has been debunked many times over. It actually costs more to get a flea market table than a standard dealer table.

I'm not sure why the focus for some seems to be on the one or two people selling some items that are deemed "new", it rarely happens. The vast majority of the people selling in the flea market are selling things that aren't available in the dealer hall.

I think the OP is a terrible idea. Let's face it, the industry is changing, and the idea that punishing the members by removing options is going to increase vendor business is at best hopeful, I guess, but not based on any hard evidence (just a hunch). I definitely do consider the flea market a service that the members value highly and want to keep. The convention attendees have access to this service 3 times a year. The vendors will return to their business and continue to conduct affairs over the internet or in their stores. If you restrict flea market to a SINGLE session (now we have two, this idea would have it down to one, unless we have it open until 2 AM or something).

Flea markets aren't the enemy, guys. Times are changing. This business is changing, it's not the fault of the customers that it is. There will probably be more vendors telling us that they can't make shows in the future. Who can blame them? If they lose money every show, they won't be back, eventually. That's going to be a tragic day, but to say that the flea market has the same impact on doing convention vendor business as, say, internet commerce, is just ridiculous. Vendors don't decide not to come to a show to punish people-- I'm sure they'd RATHER be there. It's the economics of the situation-- spending money on insufficient return isn't a business model most vendors can support for long. The flea market isn't going on the rest of the year-- but the economic trends that cause a slump in vendor attendance are 24/7. It's a pity, really, but it isn't 1995 any more. If there's something I can do (as a convention attendee) to support a vendor, I'll do it, but there's only so much I can do-- I'm not going to buy stuff I don't want or don't need. I can't afford not to use the stuff I buy from a vendor, so I limit it to periods I am active in, or projects I'm actively working on.

Don't get me wrong; vendors are a huge part of my convention experience and always have been-- the problem is people not coming to conventions as much as they used to. That's the root problem. We all know this. If THAT was easy to fix, it would be done already.

Walt

A few of us have been saying exactly what Walt has stated so eloquently. But Walt has stated those points extremely well and they are a much needed point of neutral reference and common sense. Thanks for sharing them.

As a dealer, no matter what you say, I doubt very much anything will every change.

But, there are some things I believe we need to accept, but no apply across aboard.

1. Not everyone in that flea marker is selling to buy in vendor hall. There are those selling off collections, either their own or for others, because of a variety of reasons, death, disinterest, finances, etc.

2. Not everyone in the flea market is selling off personal items. There are second hand dealers, and why not. There are many companies that don't do those shows any more and if you want those items, where do you think you will find them. Many of these people are not hard to spot, because they have been operating flea market tables at almost every session of every east coast show, and at some small conventions they can be spotted in the dealer hall due to flea market hours.

3. By putting large separation between flea marker and dealer hall, the convention then limits the spending in one area over another. What benefits the flea market is the closeness to the gaming area, allowing often a quick run in while waiting for that one player who always takes forever to move, etc.
Personally, I like Gettysburg, because the entrance and exit to the flea market keep the consumer all in one area – and it made it easier for the person with the desire to spend what they earned in the flea market in the dealer hall a whole lot easier. At Fredricksburg, that was the way it was originally planned.

4. The future is changing. And with growing cost for vendors to do conventions, like Extra Crispy, they are dropping out. All you need to do is look at TMP prior to any East Coast convention as see dealers who once attended now running not able to attend sales. This in someways now makes the flea market more attractive. So if in the future, the shows lose another 10% of their vendors, where does the BOD look to make up that lose in revenue? Via the attendees or those doing business at the shows, flea marketers?

Again, I don't think things will change. Everything said above has been said before. The question is, with things like kickstarters, internet, ebay and now similar Facebook pages where no fees are charged, plastics, 3D printers, etc, the whole question could become mute in the future.

As a dealer, the only thing I would really like to see is that the consumer flow for both the flea market and the dealer hall be in the same place, rather than a vast space with distractions like going the opposite direction to load their car, food fenders, games, people they haven't seen in awhile, all the good things we enjoy at the show but keep us from getting from one buying area to another

One last thing, my walk through the flea market this year, and yeah, I am looking for deal, what I saw was a lot of stuff priced very close to retail or on par with Ebay prices. I noticed this last year when I went through the flea market. I don't have to squeeze through a crowd on Ebay.

The convention is just too long for the dealers to make any money. Let them skip Sunday and go home Saturday night. I believe lodging and food are the primary culprits driving up costs.

Miniatureships, the flea market isn't like e-bay. The resemblance to sumo wrestling is much stronger.

Question, though. I've not missed many of the East conventions of the past 25 years--meaning I date bac to when dealers and flea marketeers were next to each other. And all this time, people--well, dealers, anyway--have been telling me about the secret dealer who rents a flea market table and so can sell me new stuff cheaper than they can. In 25 years, I have never found that secret dealer. Could someone point him out to me at Fall In?

All I find are a bunch of guys trying to thin collections, people who bought stuff they shouldn't have and sometimes never got it out of the box, amateur to semi-pro terrain makers and, sometimes, former dealers selling up the last of their inventory. And all of them take their "profits" and head straight to the dealers hall. Sometimes the guy who buys one army in the flea market gets there first, looking for the opposition army.
The dealers should have armies to sell.

Wow, this old argument again. Okay, carry on.

The flea market is a bad joke and has been for years now. Rather than gamers selling their extras, it's been invaded by a category of unofficial vendor. Anyone who has gone to the flea market knows what I mean.

Shut it down and start over--or open up the vendors hall to more sellers--or just get rid of it.

Combining flea mkt/vendors – HMGS pays the local vendor tax for the vendors. At HCON say 60 vendors. If we mix in flea mkt without the area being separate in space and time (hours)then the city tax people who come by will see double the number of vendors we paid tax for. This leads to unpleasantness.

Vendors leaving Sat evening – the vendors who stay due to a long drive are not willing to leave their booths and merchandise un attended while their competition is packing out. So they don't want to stay till midnight after a whole day in their booth.

Midnight madness flea mkt – we leave this up to the CD. His call.

Due to the long drive, I can attend at most two HMGS-E cons per year. Usually one.
I know this makes me a little fish, but the OP has just hit on a brilliant plan to reduce my convention attendance to 0.

I don't understand why the list of flea market rules and regulations keeps getting longer, but no one does anything about the people in there who are clearly dealers. If the flea market is for getting rid of your own excess gaming stuff, then restrict it to that (as your regs state but you never seem to enforce)? I can understand the dealers get angry when they struggle to pay the costs the move to F'burg dumped on them and then they see people in the flea market with racks of new games for sale. And finish the job of chasing the few remaining dealers away and the con is truly dead. Unless you're willing to pay $200 USD to get into a con with no dealers.

How about putting the flea market tables in the dealer area and truly restricting them to non-dealers. The traffic to the flea market would have to walk through the dealer hall (just like going into a CVS and the cold drinks are on the back wall, dragging you past everything else?

Year after year convention after convention argument comes up so shut down the flea market. Have a Vendor Hall only, if some people are trying to game the system (no pun intended) and are just unofficial vendors in the flea market they get a choice.
Get a table in the Vendor Hall or sell on Ebay. In the end people will always be unhappy get use to it.

I don't understand why the list of flea market rules and regulations keeps getting longer, but no one does anything about the people in there who are clearly dealers.

Easier said than done. Proving you're a proper vendor is easy enough (resale license, business license, tax ID, etc). Proving the negative? not so easy. Ask a flea marketeer "do you have a resale ticket?", he'll say "why, no!". Never mind the stack of inventory that'd put a well-stocked store to shame. "Basement/garage bombers" have been a bane of the shop industry for decades. If you think you're going to solve that one for one piddly con, then you're kidding yourself…

The usual tempest in a teapot, with most of the same folks doing the ranting. The simple fact is the Flea Market works fine the way it is so don't mess with it.

Charlie,

It's not that hard to see a table with racks of shrink-wrapped games. They just choose to ignore it.

+1 Walt O'Hara

Even though many have said what I feel too, I'm going to exercise my freedom of speech.

I am sick to death of people blaming low vendor sales on the flea market. I speak with knowledge…I have been attending 2 or all 3 of the HMGS cons for about 24 years. I sell my old stuff in the flea, then go to the dealer hall looking for new toys.

One vendor I visited this past weekend has no room to gripe about poor sales, as he almost didnt get mine. If not for the fact I was buying a model for my 7 year old daughter, I would have told him to go to Hell and walked away. My wife and I stood there for almost 10 minutes while the 2 guys working the booth shot the bull with 2 other people. One of the "others" even pointed to me trying to get the vendor's attention AND THE VENDOR IGNORED HIM!!! Finally, the wife of the other "non customer" made eye contact with me and helped to segue the vendor to me. So, maybe another variable in perceived low sales is poor customer service?

Stop bashing the flea market. Without it I feel very comfortable saying vendor sales will certainly drop off. I sell, I spend. I sell, and vendors buy from me and resell. Seen it, several times personally. I've also bought an army or parts of an army in the flea and then went straight to the dealer hallto buy more or the opposing army.

Alright…I'm going to breathe now.

My apologies…I have many friends in the dealer hall and I don't want any misunderstanding. SOME vendors may want to look at their customer service as a problem.

Or the Internet, or an aging demographic that is selling off their collection rather than expanding it?

Some vendors are on another thread here saying they did great. So is the griping about the flea market area from vendors who did not do great? Maybe it's your product.

Here's one that seemed to slip by everyone's radar:

"HMGS pays the local vendor tax for the vendors. At HCON say 60 vendors."

Say what? HMGS is paying taxes for vendors? How long has this been going on? Why on earth is HMGS paying for dealers? Why not lower the table fees and let them pay their own taxes? What a bookkeeping nightmare and financial shell game this all has become.

I spend maybe an hour in the flea market the entire weekend of a convention, and 2-3 in the vendors hall. The times they are open, never compete with the other for me. Also I usually get a saturday Flea market table at Cold Wars, if I had to wait until Saturday night I wouldn't be able to put any of it back into the Vendors pockets as I leave early on Sundays. This would be a lose to the dealers bottom dollar as far as I'm concerned.
my $.02 USD

The idea that HMGS pays the sales tax for vendors is silly. The vendor is responsible for that sales tax, and if the State were to come into the hall and demand the tax, the only one responsible is the vendor.

Now, when the show was at Valley Forge, HMGS covered the issue for the Flea Market, thus the name "Wally's Basement" because the convention center required EVERYONE selling to have a state tax id number – by state I do not necessarily mean a PA number. The convention center rules would have killed the flea market, or at least shown who is a secondary dealer.

One note on the above, many convention centers are now either forced by city or state regulation or they willing comply to sale tax rules, meaning if you don't have some sort of sales tax number, you can't sell in that convention center.