"What rules for SF mass battles?" Topic

I meany like a company or larger force of AFVs with supporting Artillery, Aerospace, Infantry (multiple types,) and even naval units, type size battle.

I have Dirtside II but what else is out there that allows those size actions while differentiating between general categories of weapons. Baccus had a set for larger battles IIRC but someone else has that now.

Anyway, what do you use for large massed battles for SF games?

I didn't like any of the rule sets I found because they didn't really account for recent advances in drone technology so I just ended up modifying Command Decision which I knew played clean. The couple of games I've done so far (in 15mm) went pretty well. If you want to shoot me your email, I can send you copies of my mods and a sample vehicle data sheet.

Dirtied is a good place to start

Do not have Command Decision but thanks anyway.

"Dirtied?" Did you mean Dirtside II?

Strike Legion for me, by Legionnaire Games.

Future War Commander. Very fun, and has a multitude of lists from all the major 15mm and 6mm guys.

Iron Cow is worth a look too, though I don't recall any naval units in it.

I honestly still really like Epic: Armageddon, though it's a (theoretically) closed system. Ironically, it's pretty close in detail to Flames of War!

Dirtside gets my vote for playing something that isn't GW rules, plus it has a robust build-your-own system.

I didn't like any of the rule sets I found because they didn't really account for recent advances in drone technology so I just ended up modifying Command Decision which I knew played clean.

In what way, if you don't mind me asking?

I assume a lack of (much) hidden movement or other fog of war to be a result of the presence of recon drones all over the place.

Yep, FOW is WH 40K.

Future War Commander and, as McWong73 says, it has army lists

Epic Armageddon is your best bet IMHO. I've tried most of the others (not IC) at this level. With EA I've always had a great time. Even huge battles are playable if you have the time.

I agree – Epic:A, FWC or Strike Legion …

And I have thought that Drone Tech should be added for at least spotting/call-in FA, etc. … Attack Drones would work just like airstrikes …

Drones for spotting would allow you to call-in FA, etc., without LOS. But regardless of what rule system you use. You'd have to add an extra 1d6 roll before calling-in. As anything electronic, mechanical,, etc. could fail. 1d6 roll : 1-3 = fail, 4+ = Good commo. For that turn only. Next turn you can try again.

If your OPFOR has some kind of ECM model on the board, like a Damocles in Space Marine. -1 to 1d6. You wouldn't even need a drone model. Just pay the cost (100 pt. ?) for adding the drone to you battle force numbers. Its just up there, somewhere in the air. Remember when adding to rules … K.I.S.S.

Just some thoughts …

Lion-

Less concealment is definitely part of it. I also added communication net technology effects, brilliant artillery, over the horizon targeting and semi-autonomous armed drones

BattleTech Alpha Strike w/the Companion adds in all the arms, including awerospace & naval.

Another vote for Future War Commander.
It not only has Army Lists… It has Ogres.

Mantic are developing Warpath which should do large battles (they focus on their 28mm models but the game is still unit based at that size, so it'll adapt to smaller sizes easily). No naval.

Laserstorm is also available but I don't recall the air support in it and don't think there were any naval.

Dirtside, Striker, Striker II. You can easily write rules to manage drone effects.

5150 Battalion Commander
Here's some AARs.Search Battalion Commander, there's about 15 posts.

link

I would use Future War Commander Rules hope it helps.

Take care

Andy

Howdy,

I'll second, Command Decision – Test of Battle (i.e., 4th edition). I've been puttering around with Mecha Decision modifications and data sheets.

The biggest difference is the prevalence of air units on the futuristic battlefield.

Also looking at some light infantry prevalent games, see the "Into the Stans" thread on the modern board.

I really like the Hawk Wargames 10mm figures.

More to come on this …

Ponder on,

JAS

I play Dirtside II with some modifications for Moderns. I really like Strike Legion for SF, its a bit crunchy but rewarding and unless you are using a lot of one unit type, not necessarily 'mass' battle done in an evening game, dare I say. It does have ALL the rules for what you want, though.

I want to like FWC, but it has a couple glaring issues which could be rectified with house rules.

I played Command Decision a LONG time ago, very tight set of rules. I've never played Stryker or 5150 Battalion Commander.

Mute, Now that it's been a few months, what have you tried out ?

Well years ago Din of Battle posted about adjusting Field of Battle World War II from Piquet for EPIC.

link

He uses the medium FOW bases and mounts 6-8 figures per to create company size bases.

Vehicles depending on the size fit two to a base.

Command vehicles and commanders he puts onto the small FOW bases.

Just something to consider.

Laser Storm for me. Large battles and fast play.

Laser Storm… I'm going to try them out. They look modern enough, simple, I can use bases of 3mm vehicles, no markers or counters… IT has a campaign system !

Link to Laser Storm?

-Will

Laserstorm – link

I like this thread. I have a bunch of Clix MechWarrior stuff that I wanted to put to use. Don't have the Clix rules and was never that fond of fiddling with the dials. I was looking at Dirtside II (can't beat the cost) but I may also have to check out some of the other suggestions.

I still have a real fondness for FASA's Centurion rules for grav-armor. Excellent Infantry/Armor/Arty/Aerospace interactions, plus a pretty robust design system.

Does have it's issues, though. Not quite as annoying as sandblasting armor in Battletech, but you need to keep track of all the damage templates somehow. The level of detail on the vehicles does limit your game-size somewhat. Also, no walkers, it's all grav-vehicles. Even most of the infantry have grav-belts, mostly to survive jumping out of an APC at 200+kph.

But it's tough to beat grav-tanks dropping in from orbit! Plus all the minis are still in productions from CinC: pfc-cinc.com/rl.html

=====
If you don't mind a bit of work, DP9's original Heavy Gear system has an outstanding design system (just create a spreadsheet to do the math, trust me on this!), and IIRC the first edition of HGBlitz had conversion rules from the higher-detail Heavy Gear rules to Blitz.

Blitz basically has 3 states for vehicles (lightly damaged, moderately damaged, and very obviously dead), so works really well for multiple platoons of vehicles per side. Damage effects are easy to mark, too (gray smoke on light damage, add black smoke for heavy, and add flames for obviously dead)

Another vote for Epic Armageddon – My only concern is that is does play a little "low tech" – although it'll cover off most of what you need.

Cheers,

Furgie

The original Space Marine used Command Decision model and worked well (though used tiny miniatures).

Striker II was Command Decision for Sci-Fi but does not have updates for Test of Battle version.

The Command Decision model works well but complexity is an issue.

Space Marine version is low complexity while Striker II had the full range of CD stuff.

Start with Space Marine and flavor to taste.

I've got a SF version of Combat Command (almost) done but its still behind adding additional Army Lists for Combat Command. Far enough advanced that I use it for all large scale SF games. (Use old "Blade" 20mm SF armies – great line.)

TomT

Blinksquirrel,

That account is locked.

Also Polyversal will be out soon.

polyversal-game.com

Design your own units, and some elegant command and control rules in it.

Not quite out yet but getting close.