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"Tell me about the Late Roman Empire." Topic


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Pliny The Younger16 Jul 2016 8:44 a.m. PST

I have an interest in gaming with the later romans, as my new found opponent has a hun army, it seems this is the perfect pairing.

I know nothing about rome after the conquest of Dacia… I know they stopped expanding and tried desperately to hold on to what they had.

Tell me a bit about the military structure. I don't really know anything about the late roman military. I know they used round shields, lead weighted darts and germanic style swords.
I don't know anything about their battlefield tactics or the way the army was structured.

Could you provide me with some reading material so I can understand this period a bit better?

Help would be appreciated

thanks so much

zippyfusenet16 Jul 2016 8:48 a.m. PST

Avram Davidson's novels Peregrine: Primus and Peregrine: Secundus are perfect.

Huscarle16 Jul 2016 11:49 a.m. PST

I recommend reading Ammianus Marcellinus: The Later Roman Empire A.D.354-378 or "Julian" by Gore Vidal.
"Eagle in the Snow" by Wallace Breem is a fine novel.
Adrian Goldsworthy "The Fall of the West"

Check these websites for an overview on the army of the period
romanarmy.net/Latearmy.shtml
link

Lucius16 Jul 2016 12:49 p.m. PST

TMP link

Looks like a great place to start.

RavenscraftCybernetics16 Jul 2016 2:54 p.m. PST

As empires go, it was a big one!

Marcus Brutus16 Jul 2016 7:48 p.m. PST

The Fall of the Roman Empire by Peter Heather is the best account of the period that I have come across.

vtsaogames16 Jul 2016 8:54 p.m. PST

Small Roman armies because big ones have a tendency to raise their generals to the purple and march on Rome.

Henry Martini16 Jul 2016 10:19 p.m. PST

You really should revisit that link, Lucius :-).

Personal logo BigRedBat Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Jul 2016 1:33 a.m. PST

Seconded on the Peter Heather book- very readable.

Caliban17 Jul 2016 11:27 a.m. PST

My very basic take on the army composition:

Forward forces: these are located close to possible incursion points, and have various names. In fact, nomenclature is one of the perennial problems of this period because there are multiple names for almost all of the troops.

Central reserve forces: reasonably high status mobile troops that are supposed to move to reinforce the forward troops against a serious threat. Unike the earlier imperial periods, there is a relatively high proportion of mounted troops in these armies.

Troop types are, to the mind of an Early Imperial player, just plain weird. For example, the 'legions' may be called that, but they are hardly the pilum-armed mincing machines of yore. They are also relatively small; you could get away with 2,500 men per legion. A mix of armour types and unarmoured; shields would be large ovals. Weaponry is a mixture of long thrusting spears, quite heavy throwing spears (not the pilum) and, sometimes, heavy darts. Just to make it even more complicated, they could have an integral rear rank of archers and dedicated skirmishers, usually with javelins. Archers could also operate in detached units of their own.

Auxiliae have also changed out of all recognition. Some are unarmoured, while others are pretty much indistinguishable from the legionaries; many elite auxiliae palatinae are in fact of better quality than the legionaries. These guys are at least as regular as the legionaries.

Cavalry can be of excellent quality, there is more of it and some of it is very heavy. You can have the later equivalent of the earlier heavy cavalry with spears, although they look different. You can have cataphracts. And you can have a type wargamers usually call "Clinanarii", which are quite heavily armoured and have lances and bows, possibly with some horse armour. These are tend to be units of the regular army. There are also varieties of regular light horse, armed either with javelins or bows.

The function of auxiliaries is taken by Foederati, which basically means allies, usually tribal. This gives you an excuse to field any 'barbarian' types you like along with your Roman types. Fancy some Visigothic lancers? Not a problem. What about some Huns or Alans? How many can you afford – some contingents will fight for booty.

You can really go to town with an army like this – colour schemes are as wild as the various troops, and there are loads of beautiful figures out there. A quick piccie to finish:

picture

We ran a game of the Catalaunian Fields (aka Chalons) a few years ago, and I still have old blog posts on there about it:

link

There's more under the label of 'Chalons'. I'm no expert, but our lot in Glasgow knew enough to put on a decent sized game. Good luck with the period – colourful it certainly is!

wrgmr118 Jul 2016 10:05 a.m. PST

Thanks Caliban! I've got an army I'll be painting up soon.

Pliny The Younger18 Jul 2016 11:49 a.m. PST

Caliban,

Thanks for that we'll thought out reply! VERY informative, i appreciate it.

I have ordered several books on the topic, including "late Roman infantrymen."

Looking forward to devoting some serious study in this period!

Personal logo BigRedBat Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Jul 2016 12:51 p.m. PST

The Simon MacDowall Ospreys are very good- the Late Roman Cavalryman one is very useful, too.

Mithridates18 Jul 2016 6:27 p.m. PST

Apart from the Recommendations already made, suggest you have a look at Phil Barker's Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome, 4th edition 1981. Published by the Wargames Research Group – google it and you can find online versions or hopefully pick up a reasonably priced 2nd hand copy.

Some may say it is a bit dated but loads of information on Roman armies and enemies.

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