"Favorite Ancients Warfare Novel?" Topic

If you had to pick a single novel/book to get someone inspired to start ancient gaming, which would you recommend?

4th century and earlier for this one.

a. Casca: The Eternal Mercenary
b. ?

Gates of Fire

Another vote for Gates of Fire (by Stephen Pressfield)

Any one of Christian Cameron's "Tyrant" or "Long War" books.

I like the Ten Thousand as well as the original Anabasis – both of which are not exactly recently and I think the Gates of Fire is a fantastic book

Any of the Simon Scarrow Macro/Cato novels. Also, the Sidebottom Late Rome novels.

Eagle of war by Ben Kane, but also the works of Ian Ross, John Stack, James Mace and the best at last SJA Turner (Marius Mules)!

Gates of Fire.

Let's not turn this into the "Military Science Fiction" poll by listing every single book ever published.

Another vote for Gates of Fire and Christian Cameron's Tyrant and Long War series (especially for the first two novels in his Tyrant series).

Tides of War would be my vote on the novel side. On the nonfiction side, Caesar's Commentaries, especially if the reader is new to ancients.

Caesar's commentaries are juicier for the wargamer than any fiction. But if it must be a novel I'd go with Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series. I really didn't like Steven Pressfield and it always surprises me that Gates of Fire is so highly regarded. Each to his or her own, I suppose!

Strange. I would include Caesar's Commentaries in the novel category myself.
Classify it under "Pretty accurate Superhero novel."

L Sprague de Camp wrote a lot of Ancient novels involving military men. All are enjoyable, but few would inspire wargamers. One exception is "An Elephant for Aristotle". It has a Thessalian cavalry officer taking an elephant to Athens to give to Aristotle as a gift from Alexander.
Very inspirational with a few skirmishes along the way. Logistics are not ignored either. Good read.
I got my copy back in the 70s, and sadly had to toss it due to the dreaded "pulp paperback disintegration" disease, as well as "bonding glue disintegration" syndrome.

"Eagle in the Snow" by Wallace Breem. Stunning prose.
Good battles and game ideas too.
Colleen McCullough is very good too.

Interesting comment by Aaron there about 'Gates of Fire'. I gave up on this one after three pages, if I remember rightly. Something to do with the writing style – I just couldn't get into it. And as he rightly says, each to their own!

I would second the Marius' Mules series and the Colleen McCullough, although she can be a bit free with the details of some of the battles. She is good at linking the military and political sides of life as an important Roman.

Oh this is a toughie, probably Alfred Duggan's "Winter Quarters" or Patricia Finney's "Shadow of Gulls".

I would have said Rosemary Sutcliff "Sword at Sunset", although this is 5th Century, a tad too late.

Just ordered "An Elephant for Aristotle" on Winston's recommendation

"Hypatia" Gustav Flaubert.

Let's not turn this into the "Military Science Fiction" poll by listing every single book ever published.</a>

Start a poll the elects you Poll Editor?

'Eagle in the Snow' and 'Tides of War' are both fantastic. A not-so-distant third would be 'Pride of Carthage.'

Huscarle mentioned Rosemary Sutcliff, but for me at least 'Sword at Sunset' is not my first choice. Sutcliff got me interested in ancients from the first time I read 'Eagle of the Ninth'. It's aimed at youth readers and some of the concepts in her writings have been refuted by more recent historians, but it had me hooked from the get go. I re-read it when the movie came out a few years ago and it still keeps me going.

I tried reading the Macro/Cato series, but didn't get too far. It felt too much like an attempt to present Roman centurians as modern British Army sergeants. Maybe that presentation changes as the series progresses, but since he lost me with the first book I'll never know.

Mary Renault's trilogy on Alexander the Great. Second to that would "Gates of Fire.'

A quick mention too for 'Imperial Govenor' by George Shipway, Boudicca's rebellion et al., and 'Elephants and Castles' by Alfred Duggan.
Many others of my favourites listed above

Wallace Breem's "Eagle in the Snow" -- but be sure to get the UK paperback or the original 1970s printing. The Rugged Land US edition/reissue is truncated, it inexplicably leaves out the Latin coda found in the original and in the current UK paperback by Phoenix Press.

Gads. I can't stand "Gates of Fire," it's a nightmare to me. And I'm a lifelong philakone and student of that era. I think "A Victor of Salamis" by William Stearns Davis is excellent and a much better novel of the Persian wars, but good luck finding a copy -- I think it's been out of print for decades and decades.

More recently, the "Leonidas of Sparta" trilogy (A Boy of the Agoge; A Peerless Peer; A Heroic King) by Helena Schrader is excellent. I didn't expect it to be good at all, but I was really pleasantly surprised at how well written and well-researched it is.

I also have found memories of "Tell Them in Sparta" by Roderick Milton.

"Eagle in the Snow" by Wallace Breem. – great book but the author died 26 years ago. So nothing more coming from him.

But the Conqueror series by Conn Lggulden (development of the Mongol empire) is well written and historical. Real page turners.

Another good de Camp book is The Arrows of Hercules, even if it is blatant anti Carthaginian propaganda.
It's almost autobiographical for de Camp. The hero is a practical minded Greek engineer developing weapons systems for Dionysius of Syracuse. Of course he is heroic and gets the girl. It reminds me of William F Buckley's Blackford Oakes spy novels in that regard.

What the heck. Any de Camp ancient historical novel is a first rate yarn. He knew his stuff, and if there are no battles for wargaming inspiration, you will not have wasted your money. I read almost all of his historical novels I could find at the time the Ancients bug bit me. I bought a lot of Garrison Persians back then.
Dragon of the Ishtar Gate is good too. And many more.

"The Imperial Governor" by George Shipway, formerly an officer of Indian Army cavalry.

"Eagle in the Snow," by Wallace Breem.

'Tell them in Sparta' from Sphere paperbacks, 1/6d remaindered in Woolworths, lol. One of my favourite inspirations as a child (complete plagiarism of Herodotus)

George Shipway's 'Warrior in Bronze' (Mycenae) series was good too, but well out of print now, I think.

To answer the OP's question, rather than debate the writing style etc of many authors……..

Simon Scarrow's Macro and Cato series, action from the get go.

Bernard Cornwell's The last kingdom series ( yeah I know it's out of the period, but again….action)

Memnon, Alexander's invasion from the Persian side.

Gates of fire.

Cheers Andy

Alexander, God of War, by Christian Cameron as well as his Tyrant and Long War series, great reads.

Gates of Fire with a shout out to the abridged version read by Derek Jacobi, even if you had trouble reading the book, listening to this while painting Greeks and Persians is awesome.

Eagle in the Snow is a classic and thought provoking work. I loved every bit of it even though you know it will end badly.

Macro/Cato series, entertaining.

My two cents…

Rick

Shagnasty wrote:

Mary Renault's trilogy on Alexander the Great. Second to that would "Gates of Fire.'

And third would be "An Eagle of the Ninth".

FWIW, I'd also give a shout to Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Forest House". While not a battle/war story per se, it's an excellent look into 1st century A.D. Britain under the Romans, as seen through the Briton's side of things.

Historical novels by Mary Renault

The Last of the Wine (1956) — set in Athens during the

Peloponnesian War; the narrator is a student of Socrates

The King Must Die (1958) — the mythical Theseus up to his father's death

The Bull from the Sea (1962) — the remainder of Theseus' life

The Mask of Apollo (1966) — an actor at the time of Plato and Dionysius the Younger (brief appearance by Alexander near the end of the book)

Fire from Heaven (1969) — Alexander the Great from the age of four up to his father's death

The Persian Boy (1972) — from Bagoas's perspective; Alexander the Great after the conquest of Persia
The Praise Singer (1978) — the poet Simonides of Ceos

Funeral Games (1981) — Alexander's successors

Non-fiction

The Nature of Alexander (1975) — a biography of Alexander the Great

The Lion in the Gateway: The Heroic Battles of the Greeks and Persians at Marathon, Salamis, and Thermopylae (1964) — about the Persian Wars

************************
By Mary Stewart
The Merlin Series

The Crystal Cave (1970)
The Hollow Hills (1973)
The Last Enchantment (1979)
The Wicked Day (1983)
The Prince and the Pilgrim (1995)

link

An oldie but a goodie

Nobody has mentioned Anthony Riches 'Empire' series, which, in my opinion, knocks Simon Scarrow into a cocked hat
link

How could I forget Funeral Games? I still call my old veteran units "Terrible Old Men" from her description of the Argyraspides.

I see that in many cases the requirement for "inspirational for wargaming" has been thrown under the quadriga. S'OK. I did it too.

Ah yes, Mary Renault! Great choice.

Anyone interested in Egyptians should read Pauline Gedge's 'Hippopotamus Marsh' trilogy, dealing with the rise of the New Kingdom and expulsion of the Hyksos. Some of her others are good too.

Don't read Renault's "Funeral Games" if you're feeling depressed. You might become inclined to give it all up. Otherwise all her stuff is first rate. Graves' book on Belisarius probably has the most interest for wargamers, but de Camp's book "Lest Darkness Fall" has some interest for Late Roman enthusiasts in an alternate history vein. Many of his books have some combat in them; "The Wheels of If" has an alternate Earth early 20th century war (tanks and air rifles) and "The Fallible Fiend" has sword and sorcery large scale action.

Thrown under the quadriga like Stephen Boyd! Love it!

Massiom Manfriedi-Alexander trilogy
Ross Lecci-Hannible and Scipio

Elephants and Castles by Alfred Duggan. Factually flawed it still a weaves a fascinating and inspiring account of phalanx warfare at the time of Demetrius Poliorcretes the Besieger of Cities after Alexander.

Second Count Belisarius by Robert Graves.

Julian by Gore Vidal is also very good.

On the nonfiction side, Caesar's Commentaries

Er, well, let's call them based on a true story.

Flashmanianus Marcellinus can be found on the same shelf.

Manfredi is pretty dire. Perhaps he writes beautiful Italian and it's just the translations letting him down.

He Died Old by Alfred Duggin

Spartacus by Lewis Grassic Gibbon, an amazing read!

Another vote for Funeral Games; a terrific novel.

Is there a similar thread somewhere for Dark Ages/Medieval books?

I'd second JARROVIAN'S comment about Anthony Riches "Empire" series. It focuses on Auxiliaries rather than Legionnaires for a start; and they are damn good reads. Lots of skirmish scenario ideas.

The first novel, "Wounds of Honour" has a damn good climactic battle scene, including six cohorts of a legion being turned into mincemeat by irate Britons and the loss of an Eagle. The way the battle is described would, I think, be easily translated to a tabletop scenario

The series is set in the late 2nd century AD, just after the ascension of Commodus

Of course, I also like Scarrow, Sidebottom, Duggan, Graves and Turney. Guess I'm a Sword and Sandals at heart :D

for those wondering at the censoring (and sorry, btw I seriously didn't imagine it would be censored) the word is short, pungent and alliterative with both swords and sandals

Lots of good ones here. I agree that Funeral Games is about on a par with The Road,as far as laff riots go.

I've read Eagle of the Ninth and Eagle in the Snow twice each,so those,I guess.

But then,I think I've read Andre Norton's Shadowhawk three times,twice in high school,and again fairly recently. Held up well,I thought. Revolt against the Hyksos.

Gates of Fire: Spartans bloviating about "freedom". It's to laugh. Otherwise OK.