"Yom Kippur War" Topic

As a follow up to my previous post regarding the question of NorKs vs. IAF in the 1973 war.

TMP link

I was talking to an Egyptian veteran of the '73 War. He swore that all the Egyptian pilots were Egyptians – no Russians, no Koreans, no one but Egyptians. Just for those of you who are interested.

There were Russians and others flying for the Egyptians as well.

Perhaps he's just not aware of it.

The Israelis set a trap for a bunch of Russkie pilots, and pretty much wiped them out. Forget the name of that "operation".

I've been reading quite a bit on that war. Multiple sources indicate the Egyptians as a whole were very deathly afraid of the IAF due to the events in the Six Day War.

Sadat refused to allow his own pilots and planes out from under their layered SAM umbrella. I imagine he and his military more willing to let other nations shoulder their load/try their luck.

What they were unaware of was that their advances so surprised the Israelis that the IAF did not have the time or resources in place to execute their multi-layered plan to counter their SAM's within an acceptable degree of safety.

Mako11 – I doubt the Russian pilots were flying. Brezhnev actually pulled out ALL his forces, advisors, families, everyone the week before hostilities, he was pissed that Sadat was not heeding the Soviet advise to hold off on more diplomatic talks to regain the Canal. Sadat had egg on his face for years after the Six Day War and wanted a military solution to regain some pride for the Egyptian people.

Unfortunately, their partner, Syria, was unaware that Sadat planned to stop just after the Canal (and did.)

That was all Sadat wanted, to get Egyptian territory back, while he was telling Syria they'd destroy Israel together. So while Egypt sat and waited and reinforced when the Sinai was almost wide open, Syria was struggling to advance thinking there was a legit two-front war.

They did.

They even manned Su-15s to defend Cairo against the IAF, since the Egyptian pilots weren't rated for that.

IIRC, they also flew the Mig-25 recon jets as well.

they were Lybians as well

Not trying to belabor it, and I know I could be wrong, but everything I have read shows the Soviets (and other Arab ally forces) helping Egypt during the Six Day War and the "War of Attrition" (100 Soviet MiG-21's.)

BUT the Soviets pulling out all their advisors and state-owned equipment just before hostilities in the Yom Kippur due to an unwillingness to support Sadat's military solution to get back the Sinai.

Pro-Soviet or Soviet historical commentaries of the era and region say that Sadat *expelled* the advisors and forces as a response to Bezhnev not providing what Sadat considered enough arms to attack Israel sooner, which risked the Soviet focus of peace through detente. Which leads one (not for sure, but leads) to assume the pilots and planes were not there for the Yom Kippur.

What source do you have that I may be unaware of? I want to be thorough -- I have an interest in this region and era and if I have not read up on something I want to do that.

Ah – just found an entry that Unit Det 154 (MiG-25's) was sent to Egypt on the last days of the Yom Kippur… I'd love to find out the reason behind this, the turn-around by the Soviets. Maybe a response to Nickel Glass or a need to "proof" the MiG in a shooting war.

So far that is the only divergent resource – do you know of more??

I think the "trap" described above occurred during the 1970 War of Attrition and was over the Suez Canal area. The best game on the subject is GMT's Elusive Victory as the scenario book that describes all of the actions is worth the price of the game alone.

Yes, some of my references could be from the War of Attrition, though I'm pretty sure the Su-15 units were there to protect Cairo and those in power during the 1973 war, since there was a fear the Israelis were going to attack the city, as they drove deeper into Egypt.

Try ACIG.org.

There are lots of great stories there that seem to be found nowhere else.

Appears the falling out with the Soviets was a typical ruse of misinformation, if you believe this article:

link

The Russians/Soviets are famous for this, like, no Russian troops in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, etc., etc..

This article says the Mig-25s were returned to Egypt during the last week of the war (presumably with Soviet pilots, since the Egyptians couldn't be trained on the aircraft so quickly):

link

Yea, That first link I hesitate to trust. The Israelis were victims of their own arrogance and needed no, "disinformation" to be caught unawares.

Failures of both the Syrian and Egyptian desks are brought point by point in one of the books I have read on the subject – its at home and I'll have to name it later. Failures borne out of a superiority complex reinforced by the overwhelming victory of the Six Day War.

Like everything we find on the internet or in books, keep reading and comparing and checking for ideology, bias & self-promotion.

link

There it is. A part of the book goes into the failings of the Egyptian and Syrian Intel Desks via interviews and admissions of their own sense of arrogance and lack of appreciation for the Egyptian and Syrian fighting potential due to the blinders of their success in the Six Day War.