"Best WWII Ruleset for Experienced Players?" Topic

Which WWII ruleset(s) would you recommend for players who have a lot of WWII wargaming experience.

Command Decison.

Depends on the scale of the game. Here are my preferences for WW II gaming, based on the scale of the pieces:
Each figure is a single soldier, Chain of Command
Each base is a squad, Crossfire
Each base is a platoon, Command Decision: Test of Battle

Mike

"Best" = "Rules you like best."
So in my case it's Flames of War. YMMV

I'm on a Battlefront WW2 kick right now, and I think it fits the bill (no pun intended). Experienced WW2 wargamers have the advantage of knowing what tactics work and what would end disastrously. The core of BFWW2 is fire and maneuver tactics and if you don't heed these, you will be ground into the dust very quickly.

That said, I don't think "best" necessarily means "what one prefers." The question can be objectively answered (I know no one believes in objectivity any more—call me old school) by defining the terms. "Best for experienced wargamers" might be understood, for example, by thinking what games are NOT ideal for inexperienced gamers (i.e. complicated rules, or rules that punish those who lack a basic knowledge of the period and historical tactics). Conversely, a good ruleset for experienced gamers is one where one can apply a lifetime of personal reading on WW2 to the tabletop, attempting a Rommelian maneuver or a Patton gambit and actually see that play out satisfactorily on the game table.

+1 "Best" = "Rules you like best."

Been gaming, including WW2 since the 70s, and the rules I like best are Blitzkrieg Commander II. Great for new payers too.

I know some like it, but I really dislike Crossfire.

It certainly has a unique system, but it's not my cup of tea.

The one you can get 3 other people to agree to play :D

Fistful of TOWs 3

man to man – battleground WWII
supports good tactics and takes more skill/knowledge than chance.

Yea, I agree with Battleground WWII.

Some people use Advanced Squad Leader (basic version) for minis, and I suspect some even use the much more detailed full version as well. It's quite complex, so would be good for experienced players familiar with them. A rather steep learning curve for newbies.

As above, the ones your pals are willing to play.

Well it would depend on what the experienced players are after from a game.

For competitions, the UK has lots of Battlefront and Bolt Action tournaments.

For realism, I doubt if many rules pass that test. First you have to be able to see your target before you can shoot at it. Machine guns should have a beaten zone, rather than picking off individuals (an ex-army friend of mine is also fond of indirect fire with machine guns). Morale, vital to any rules. And some weapons were just down right bad, anyone fancy going into action with a Chauchat machine gun?

BTW I remember one of my games where a player (who was an officer cadet at the time) sent forward a squad of infantry to their certain death to spot a unit of Germans that he the player could see on the board. so that he could then shoot at them. I said "I hope you are not going to do that in real life." But there are no lead widows.

Best for me is Battlegroup WW2. Lots of flavor and tense action due to your battlegroup morale rules.

Fireball Forward. Nothing else comes even close!

I have played loads of different ww2 rules some complicated.

I am currently playing gf9's Tanks. Will add infantry.

It's as complicated as my empty head can cope with now days.

Rich

Ground? Air? Naval? Tactical? Strategic?

Our group have played Command Descision, Crossfire and Few others, we finally settled on Rapid Fire.

What about panzergrenadier delux?

I would obviously vote for PBI. Reasons are that the game is gridded and players can memorise the main mechanisms without needing charts or keeping a record. Any game that makes players happy is good news. i also still enjoy Kate Bush's early albums!

martin

I like Battleground.

Another one for Battleground.

NUTS! from Two Hour Wargames -- great skirmish game for squad to platoon level actions.

Chain of Command
IABSM

Battlefront: WWII

Blitzkrieg Commander

Force on Force (you could play even ancients with this system if you wanted to)

Guys at the club have been playing a lot of Chain of Command recently. Have to say that I didn't really like it when we gave it a first try.

Also IABSM and Battleground have been OKish. Used to play Spearhead a lot, but Blitzkrieg Commander and Battlefront: WWII are more recommendable.

Disposable Heroes, for all gamers, experienced or not.

Best?
Perhaps in terms of where experience is useful getting the most out of a more complex set of rules then CD and Battlefront WWII spring to mind, but generally any decent set of rules should benefit from having experienced players.
Of course, to some people, a set of rules where a complete novice can have as much chance of getting a good result against an experienced player is an anathema, to others its actually the definition of a good ruleset.

CoC for skirmishes, IABSM for company+ level games and Spearhead for larger stuff.

Battle group is the best. One miniature equals one man. One tank is one tank. It can be played with up to a full bataillons a side.

Disposable heroes & CoC for skirmishes
Battlegroup for anything larger.

Bolt Action
Command Decision

Maneuover Group but I am biased as I Co authored it.

It is IGOUGO. It has simple rules but does require you to think and plan, but you do not need to write commands down. It works at 1 to 1 for vehicles and teams for infantry. If you are really keen you can play at battalion level engagements with practice to cope with the sheer scale of decicion making, troops fatigue and you will have to allow for running out of steam and potentially artillery ammunition. Such a game but may take a number of evenings but by then you would. be hotly engaged over a 1 to 2 km frontage. At that it's best using 1/144 scale models. It relys on credible terrain to function. So villages need to be about 10 houses not less. This is so as to have some houses out of direct fire from outside the village.

As has been said before do you want a game to display your models or something a bit more plausible but will not show the models so well as they will be more correctly dispersed.