"Winter is here, GoT, Season6, Book 6 and beyond...." Topic

A nice wrap up and look ahead here;

link

So, will "The Winds of Winter", better known as book6, be made Glorious Summer by Season 7? I like that HBO's honchos on GoT, known in the GoT Universe as D&D, are full speed ahead on resolving this story. They were originally going to wrap it in 8 seasons but since they are reducing the next two seasons by at least two episodes each they aren't lengthening it all that much. Meanwhile the books are still expanding the story, adding new characters (based on the few chapters that GRRM has advance released). In my opinion Cersei got what she always wanted, to sit on the Iron Throne as Queen. She couldn't really run it through Joffrey (the Execution of Eddard Stark proved that) and I guess that once Tommen showed some backbone by siding with Margeary in eliminating Cersei's right to trial by Combat he became expendable. Cersei will, I think, show herself to be as mad and ruthless as Aerys and, after a run on the throne, will probably be killed by Jaime, just as he killed Aerys.

15 episodes and counting.

I'll be sad to see it end but I would hate to see it dragged on and out needlessly. Cough cough cough.

We are running out of truly despicable villains.

We'll always have Cersei.
And Dany may be breaking bad with her "Let the gods sort out the Just" attitude.

I'll be sad to see it end but I would hate to see it dragged on and out needlessly. Cough cough cough.

I agree, the show has 15 episodes to run and they have everyone in place moving towards the end except the Night King. Meanwhile GRRM has say 1500 pages to go and since he is really at where the series was at the beginning of season 6 he has to wrap up what the series took 25 episodes to do in those 1500 or so pages. That's a pretty tall order. Especially since he is still having some characters who are at least quite major in the books moving away from a big clash at the end instead of towards it. Unless some people who are important in the series aren't important in the books, and a lot of book plot lines suffer sudden ends I think that GRRM may need at least another half book (or these two books are going to have to be about 1,000 pages each). I get it, I mean GRRM loves to write big descriptive scenes, telling us not just that someone is having a feast but exactly, course by course what they are eating. I once saw where James Michner said that he couldn't have a character walk into a room in less than 8 pages, I think that's GRRM's style. But yes, while I will hate to see the series end I am anxious to know what happens, and if, after that someone wants to make a movie about Robert's Rebellion or something like that I think it would be great. At the current pace I think that this next season will just about wrap up the human end of the story in Westeros and then the last season will focus on the struggle between good and evil, man and the dead.

We are running out of truly despicable villains

True, but I think that Cersei will top them all. After all, she wiped out not only many of the Noble Houses but also the Religion of Westeros. In Medieval terms not only did she kill the Pope but most of the Cardinals and she burned down the Vatican. The Faith decides on a new High Septon but it's like the Catholic Church, sure the Cardinals elect a new Pope but if there are no Cardinals…? And we still have the Night King and the Walking Dead. And Euron lurks out there somewhere, will he marry Cersei? His Iron Born are about her only hope for allies left, or will she be able to ally herself in some way with the Undead? Or will she wind up allied with Melisandre and "The Lord of Light"?

And Dany may be breaking bad with her "Let the gods sort out the Just" attitude.

I think that after what Cersei has done the people, who initially will be terrified of Cersei, will welcome Dany with open arms. If she really believes what she told Yara (and Tyrion) that she wants to leave the World a better place then you are set for a classic struggle, Cersei, representing the evils of the past vs. Dany representing hope for the future, with Littlefinger hanging around trying to somehow get them to kill one another off so that he can step in.

I have difficulty conceiving of why anyone in Westeros would ally with Cersei. Noone has any cause to support her, as she has no real claim to the throne, anyway.

And it goes without saying that even the dimmest denizen of King's Landing wouldn't have a hard time linking her with the mass murder of hundreds, including, yeah, the seat of the religion of the 7K, many lords and ladies of note, and the very popular Queen.

And even if she did prevent Tommen from attending, it's still a hard sell that she didn't off him as well. I'm interested to see how she will cope with all this. She is going to need a hell of a publicist.

I just want to note, the HBO series, just wrapping season six, aired the same year the latest Ice & Fire book came out. I'm just sayin'.

I'm wondering what the sales figures will be, relative to Dance of Dragons. When and if WoW comes out, that is.

I have difficulty conceiving of why anyone in Westeros would ally with Cersei. Noone has any cause to support her, as she has no real claim to the throne, anyway.

I'm thinking that maybe the Freys (who are also pariahs) and possibly Euron (hoping he can marry and then kill her). Since she also killed Lannisters though you have to wonder if even they'll be part of her base. Some folks will probably stay out of fear and she might draw in some more by passing out open Lordships but this is why I think that Dany will be greeted with open arms. You're right though, having a de-frocked Maester like Qyburn proclaim you Queen doesn't inspre confidence in your legitimacy, it just reminds folks that everyone else is dead at your hands. Now she'll probably try to spin it as an accident, maybe even blame it on Tyrion but I don't think that too many will buy her story.

I'm thinking since Arya snuffed the three named Freys, they might just be reduced to battening down and hoping the Northerners don't move south.

You're right though, having a de-frocked Maester like Qyburn proclaim you Queen doesn't inspire confidence in your legitimacy

Did you notice in the coronation scene, he's wearing the "hand" badge? The Small Council is really small now. I'm thinking here is where we will see shades of the books, where she fills it with pathetic sycophants.

Did you notice in the coronation scene, he's wearing the "hand" badge? grin The Small Council is really small now. I'm thinking here is where we will see shades of the books, where she fills it with pathetic sycophants

I didn't catch that! She's down to just about no one now for a small council. Littlefinger has made it plain that he's Team Stark and everyone else is pretty much dead. Of course it would be out of character to appoint anyone who would oppose her in any way. And I think the HBO series is showing us the difference between Cersei and Dany. After burning the Khal's Dany returned to Meereen and she's set on destruction but Tyrion points out to her that's what her mad Father did and it didn't work out well for him. And Dany listens to him, she even puts aside her lover because she knows that she'll have to make deals in Westeros and a Queen's life really isn't her own. It did look just a couple of episodes ago as if Dany would be a true villain but then she changed, as though Tyrion walked her back from the brink. Meanwhile Cersei's only possible moderating influence, Jaime, had been removed from her sphere of influence and we saw what happened. BTW, just as an aside, Lena Heady doesn't think that Cersei will sit the throne for long;

link

and I agree. And her enemies are everywhere. In the show the Lannisters are broke, the gold mines have played out. Cersei will want to move against Sansa because of Joffrey but the North is pretty much united now. And Sansa has the Vale. She'll want to move against Dorne because of Myrcella but soon Dany will be in Dorne and so will the Tyrells (funny that after after years of bad feelings between Dorne and Highgarden Cersei has managed to make them allies). And we have a pretty hard number for the Lannister Army, courtesy of Bronn, at 8,000 men. If they went to total mobilization, if Kevan's people were willing to fight for Cersei we could what, possibly double that figure after stripping away garrisons. Meanwhile, even without her dragons, Dany will have 6,000 Unsullied, maybe 20,000 Dothraki, Yara's Ironborn, figure over 1,000 at least, and Dorne and the Tyrell Armies? The race may not always be to the swift or the battle to the strong but that's the way to bet. Toss in that the North has a score to settle, thank you very much for the Boltons and the Freys Tywin, and the odds just keep getting worse.

I'm thinking since Arya snuffed the three named Freys, they might just be reduced to battening down and hoping the Northerners don't move south.

I have a feeling that the North has some very bad things in store for the Freys, losing the Twins forever will just be a start. The North after all, as Lyanna says "Remembers".

Also I do find it fascinating that Tyrion, the prototypical cynic, has found something to believe in, Dany. And Dany, who has been taught by experience not to trust anyone, trusts him, the brother of the man who killed her father. She has what no other ruler in this series has had, a good advisor who is skilled in the political game and who doesn't want the throne themselves that is trusted implicitly. And she has Varys as well, who also seems devoted to her cause.

BTW, I while I know that many fans are hoping for the "Clegane Bowl", The Hound vs. The Mountain, my dream match can't happen. I wish that Wun Wun was still alive because imagine the Mountain facing him? "Why Ser Gregor, you've soiled your armor".

It will be interesting what part Littlefinger (and the Vale) play going forward. I do NOT see Littlefinger quietly playing a Stark ally and just going along with the ride as the united North pushes south. I can imagine several scenarios, but no way is Littlefinger done as a manipulator and schemer.

Whither Bran?
Uncle Benjen just dumped him and Meera at a Heart Tree, told him "Good luck!" and took the horse and left. They don't even have the sledge any more.
How is he supposed to get to Castle Black and bring the Wall crashing down now?
Maybe the Wall is safe after all!

I wonder where they will go with all this. Everyone appears to be playing nice and they are all against the Lannisters. The conclusion is inevitable. The Lannisters cannot withstand that many armies against them. So, we will have season 7 the Lannisters being destroyed and then season 8 fighting the WW. As noted above, they are running out of antagonists.

Now, if this all falls apart (i.e the allies and plans), it had better be extremely well written season. And it will just get redundant.

I am not sure where they can go except 7 episodes of Lannister downfall and 7 episodes of WW battles. Where is the suspense?

HBO still could surprice you my friend!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Yes, but I feel that any surprise would be completely ratings driven and not in character. Before they had too many evil people and little counter balance. Now they have too many nice people without a counter balance. The only way to get some balance will be to do something bizarre and make some people evil.

What is left? Sansa turns against Jon? Littlefinger turns against the Starks? Dorne and Tyrell break their pact. Some new threat. To me, this is all just more of what has been done before.

It was almost like the final of season 6 was the series end.

While I think that a Lannister defeat is inevitable I doubt that it will be quick or easy, in fact my money is that Jaime will wind up killing Cersei. And there is still Melisandre riding south, who knows where she ends up. There will be tension in the North between Sansa and Jon. Sansa didn't really like Jon growing up and also there will be Arya thrown into the mix. Littlefinger has finally made his plans clear, he means to sit the Iron Throne with Sansa as his Queen. He can do that with Jon as an ally in the North or without him. The Vale gives him a nice power base and with the Freys out of the picture who knows which way the Tullys will lean. And we don't relly know what will happen with Jon, we know he's part Stark but he isn't Ned's son so Sansa and Arya as well as Bran all have a better claim than he has, even if he is legitimized. You still have Euron out there as well.

Uncle Benjen just dumped him and Meera at a Heart Tree, told him "Good luck!" and took the horse and left. They don't even have the sledge any more.

Being undead Benjen can't cross the wall either.

HBO still could surprice you my friend!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

You can say that again! there were surprises aplenty this season. I certainly didn't expect Hodor/Hold the Door, Lyanna Mormont, Arya killing Walder Frey, or the way that Ramsay went. I also didn't expect Margaery to go like that or for Tommen to try out for the Westerosi high-dive team.

While I think that a Lannister defeat is inevitable

I would disagree about the Lannister's being defeated.

Because it does not need to go down with Cersei.

Jaime will end up killing his sister and then be save from Arya by Brienne and even Bran will forgive him since Jaime was meant to push Bran out of that window.

Now as for someone in the end to become the new High Sparrow I give you…

Yup The Hound

Jaime isn't on Arya's list though

Wonder how much Wildfyre there is beneath the Red Keep?
And how likely Cersei is to set it all off rather than surrender to Danaerys?

Between Tyrion and Cersei, Cersei in particular, all the Wildfire may have been used up.

Still plenty of Wildfire. Remember right before the battle of Blackwater, they wondered if there would be enough. Turns out the good folks who make it were still turning it out since the death of the mad king. No one bothered to tell them to stop.

Between Tyrion and Cersei, Cersei in particular, all the Wildfire may have been used up.

I would say so. I don't see the writers playing that card again.

Jaime isn't on Arya's list though?

Yes, but he never actually did anything against the Starks other then push Bran out the window.

But he was supposed to push Bran out the Window so that he can gain his powers.

Oh and there are not very many individuals left on Arya's list.

But there are still quite a few Freys out there and she will be busy kill them.