"Last Century of the Ottomans:2nd Pleven" Topic

Our BBB Campaign here in Istanbul still continues apace.

Next on the menu was the tried and true 2nd Pleven Scenario.

You can find the battle report, with maps, video reports and pictures at

link

With Respect
KTravlos

Another good report, Konstantinos! Always enjoy them. Looks like the only way the Russians take Pleven is to play 3rd Pleven :)

Well of course, to actually take it, the Russians really need a scenario for the 4th Battle of Plevna …

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
link
bloodybigbattles.blogspot.co.uk

Well done.

Thanks for sharing guys. Another excellent report. Plevna is a fascinating battle/campaign. A real blood bath – I wouldn't have liked to have been there myself I should say (apart from in a high command capacity away from teh front lines of course!).

Very important in that it bought sufficient time and gave the Ottoman Empire several more decades to 'hang on in there'.

It was more the effect it had on British Public opinion than any strategic effect imho. The Russians largely had bypassed it, and there is a good question if it was worth all those troops tied up. They probably could had masked it and moved on. Thus Pleven did not really change the strategic situation, and if the Russians had not been obstinate on a point of honor, they probably could had masked it and moved more troops south and west.

The decisive battles for the operational-strategic situation were in the eastern Balkans where the larger Ottoman field armies of Mehmet Ali Pasha and Suleiman Pasha were defeated and locked into the Bulgarian Quadrilateral.

This is a good map of the strategic situation

link

What Pleven did was help replace the narrative of the evil Turk (due to the 20-30000 Bulgarian massacred in the 1875-1876 rebellion) by the narrative of the Brave Turk (the British public was largely indifferent to the massive slaughter of Muslims by the Russians and Bulgarians, but reacted to a story of pluck). This probably helped mobilize support for Disraeli's policy in Berlin. Absent it I still think the British would intervene, but Russian might had been able to salvage more of Saint Stefano than it did.

I suppose the big question is: if the Russians had been more strategically focused, could they have taken Constantinople – they did manage to get to the suburbs in 1878 – or would the British always have intervened?

Yes the British would always had intervened. If the Ottoman government collapsed with another coup they might had made an attempt to take it on grounds "of restoring order and protecting the lives of foreign nationals". But they would then had negotiated with the Brits. They were not willing to fight a British war.

The question thus becomes absent Plevna how likely would a coup against Abdul Hamid II be (considering the two previous rulers were also overthrown in coups)