"Britain is Russia's biggest enemy. Is this right?" Topic

A Russian radio journalist and former RFU spokesman, Andrei Malosolov, has written, in the light of recent violence linked to a football tournament, that Britain is:
"…..a country that is, both historically and geopolitically, Russia's greatest enemy".

Leaving aside the football element, is this a commonly held view in Russia? It could have interesting implications for games in lots of different eras.

Doug

Apart from the Crimean War and British intervention in the Russian Civil War, when have Britain and Russia actually fought?
They certainly competed in Afghanistan in the 19th century, but there was no combat between the two.

Surely Russia's greatest enemy is either the Mongols or Germany?

Nope, as it has always been, Russia's greatest enemy is Russians. Home grown idiots have got them into trouble far more often than any foreign intervention.

That being said, it is pretty well true of most other nations too !!!

Historically I would have thought France, Japan and Germany were Russia's greatest enemies. As for now, it's whoever they don't like that week.

Wishful thinking. Lots of countries rate higher on our list of enemies above Russia. Some of them are friends of ours.

They wish.

During the days of empire Russia and Britain were rivals that only fought directly during the Crimean war, but used proxy many times along the border between British India and the Russian empire. I suppose that enemies don't have to fight to be enemies, after all when did the USA fight Russia other than as part of the post revolution intervention force, but in the last 70 years they have certainly been enemies.

We spent many centuries making damn sure they didn't get a warm water port, so perhaps he was thinking of that.

Otherwise, I'd say the Poles, Lithuanians and Germans (going back many, many hundreds of years).

I'd nominate China. After all, during the Cold War, the majority of Soviet missles were targeted on the Chinese border

According to the James Bond novels, this is absolutely true.

Sounds like Malosolov needs to brush up on his history.

I would say that a reasonable case could be made for that. Just because two countries never actually fought or only fought infrequently doesn't mean that they can't be great enemies.

For example, the Russians and the Americans never fought during the Cold War but they were certainly enemies.

Britain fought quite a few wars in the 19th century that were proxy wars or wars designed to limit the influence of Russia in India during the 19th century.

Germany certainly did more damage in terms of killing people in Russia however. Poland once put the Czar on his throne, so I think a stronger argument could be made in another direction.

The world according to Vlady Baby………

Actually this is a great question – historically the biggest dread the Russians have had has been from the East – Mongols, Tartars, etc – and their longest lasting beef has been with the Turks – who I would note that the one country mentioned who the Russians have never – ever – allied with

There currently has been a long-standing tension with the UK but in the two World Wars the Russians and Brits were on the same side in both

It would seem to me that the Germans would be up there as well

When China reclaims big chunks of the Russian Far East which seems to be one of those historical inevitability things, they'll be number one with a bullet but until then…

The US, UK, Germany, Turkey, Finland, the Baltics, the Swedes, the Ukrainians, the Georgians, the Poles, the Romanians have all, within the past year alone, been number one on the shirtless Vlad bad list and actual history is unimportant in who is number one that day.

Cold War, UN Security Council – Britain has to be up there as one of the strongest remaining powers in Europe post WW2.

Why would you leave aside the "football element"? This would be the only reason for the commentator to make such a stupid statement.

Why would you leave aside the "football element"?

I know what you mean but he mentioned:

historically and geopolitically

So i assumed he meant something more than football. If he didn't, I wouldn't have thought it relevant to TMP.

Doug

Let's see…
Mongols were eliminated as a threat mid 15 century

Tatars were liminated as a threat end of 18 century

Swedes were eliminated as a threat first quarter of 19th century.

Poland was eliminated as a geopolitical threat from the first time the country was cut between Germany, Austria and Russia, but they recovered several times later on. We have a long-standing feud with them, competing for the same territories. They were the first to put a proxy prince on Russian throne (ok, we repaid them later on).

China…we never had much troubles with them before revolution. By the time Russia reached Far east we had to deal with Japan.Chinese will not risk trying smth stupid now, when they know that the war will turn nuclear very fast. From what we see, China is going south now, the only places where we compete with them for influence is stan countries (Kazakhstan,Turkmenistan,Kyrgizstan, etc).

Baltics…never real independent states there, apart of brief period between 1917 and 1939, if you discard Knightly Orders and Denmark colonies.

Germany…bitter wars, interrupted by periods of cordial relationship. before WWII colliding interests mostly in Poland. WIth Hitler, a war when survival of nation was at stake.

Austria…colliding interests on Balkans and in Poland. Regular allies in 18th century, though.

France…first collision came during French revolution. Peace later on, after pro-English coup that disposed of Pavel I – 15 years of war. Crimean war. Still, Russian nobility was very pro-French from the times emigrants came to Russia end of 18th century. From beginning of 20th century – allies, sometimes even teaming during cold war times.

Turks…we were at war with them from 17th century with a very short period of being allies with Ataturk. Competing fo Southern Russia and Balkans. We would have finished them in 19th century if not other certain European powers ;)

Great Britain…if Ivan the Terrible would have married queen Elizabeth, things might go different way for Europe, but if we keep to real history..
- during Peter the Great times, we had more scotsmen seeking fortune in Russia than English. Occasional allies during French revolution and rise of Bonnie. However, it is when competition started. Pavel I decided to be friendly with Napoleon, and even sent a force to India shortly before unfortunate accident when he suffered a hit with tobacco box. After this, Alexander and his anglophiles were constantly waging war against Napoleon, were breaking continental blockade and in the end got Great Army on Russian soil. Zones of colliding interests – Caucasus, Central Asia, Balkanes, Turkey from 18th to 20th century.
Allies in WWI and WWII, bitter enemies during cold war.

Not sure if UK is qualified to be Russian enemy number of all times, but we do have a certain history.
Our parliament has a lot of strange people, especially in LDPR party, so they're not the voice of Russia or even the government. Don't think that there's much love between Putin and Cameron, though.

"A Russian radio journalist and former RFU spokesman"

…and we ALL know how intelligent journalists and footballers are…

Britain and Russia were certainly rivals during the colonial period, but historically have been friends for the last 4 centuries. Whether against France or Germany in any of its forms, the 2 countries were allied. Even in the 1917 intervention, Britain was trying to help what they perceived as the legitimate Russian government.

Not football..soccer (AKA wendyball); which is a girls' game.

That journalist was probably denied a home loan in London and bears a grudge.

The UK, and specifically London real estate, remains the top location for Russians to hide their money. Middle class to billionaires. Russians don't hold rubles, they hold English pounds and English real estate.

Putin is upset at this flight of real capital out of Russia which continues unabated.

British foreign policy until at least 1945 was sometimes described as being willing to fight the Germans to the very last drop of Russian blood.

The British were a major part of the multinational force that intervened in the Russian Civil War, and the Soviets used the fact of that intervention in their propaganda forever.

The multi-national force had minimal effect on the outcome of the RCW, if any actions by the Allied nations had an effect it was their support & supply of various White 'armies'.

For example, the Russians and the Americans never fought during the Cold War but they were certainly enemies.

Oh, we fought. Many of the actions were covert but people died, reconnaissance planes were downed, vessels destroyed, etc. To those of us who fought, it was definitely a hot Cold War. I imagine that sometime after my mortal coil has left this earth information will be quietly declassified for historians to dissect.

Very true … I believe 130 KIA's occurred during that time period. I served '79-'90, Panama and Korea among other places …

1) There is a strong intellectual current in Russian foreign policy analysis based on the idea of Eurasianism which deeply hates the maritime powers and the UK. I would not be surprised if the originator of the quote is a fan. A central tenant of that idea is that all of Russia's enemies, including Germany, were unleashed on it by the Maritime powers or with their support.

2) As for the history, at least since 1814 major sections of the UK elites in Goverment saw Russia as the next continental threat in Europe after France is defeated. This comes to head with the 1815 Polish-Saxon crisis that almost went to war. The eruption of the Eastern Question and the Great Game follows, instead of predating this view of threat(i.e the fear began in the continent and then moved to the middle east). This strong russo-phobic streak meshes later on in the 19th century with liberal distaste for Russian autocracy, especially following 1848. It reaches its fever peak with Palmerston and the Crimean War, and then partly recedes in intensity though it never goes away. The Colonial office especially is a hot-bed of russo-phobia.

Interestingly that very Russo-Phobia underpins the decision to enter the Entente. For Grey and the British russp-phobes this was a grouping alliance (one whose goal is to control from the inside a enemies action). The Brits ended up fighting Russia's war in 1914 just as they had fought Austria's war in 1854.

As for the Russians I am not as knowledgeable of Anglo-Phobia. I have a feeling it also varies in intensity. Unquestionably a part of the Russian public and elites had it at least since the time of Paul I, who detested the British.

I have to correct Barin on one thing. The Russian Expansion East did rankle the Chinese quite a lot. They were military disputes and war scares in the 1850s-1870s period and the Chinese were quite proud of forcing Russia to back down in the 1860s, and quite angry for Russia then coming back with a vengeance in the 1880s-1900s. Vicerory Li, and the other modernizers in the Qing Empire believed that Russia was a greater threat then Japan, and that it would be better to accommodate Japan in Korea in the hope that it would act as a check on Russia until Chinese modernization could be figured out and implemented to the point that China could credibly deter one of the two allied with the other. Unfortunately the 1894-5 War ruined that faction within China.But the Chinese did hate Russia quite a lot over the Siberian and Manchurian expansion.

Long term rival would seem more apt, no?

Of course, what was said in Russian and what did it get translated into?
Was it translated faithfully?

Well, I've found the blog and the article in question.
link
It does say "historically and geopolitically, Russian main enemy".
The guy is a blogger and football journalist, former member of CSKA (Moscow Army Club) football fan club.

the geopoliticaly part indicates a Eurasianist. Lovely people. I hate their guts. Probably the closest thing to a person that I would not tolerate hired in my department. I would probably resign over it.

The LDPR is the malignant boil on the Russian body politic and a parting gift from the ultra-nationalist Zhirinovsky. It is not part of Putin's party but it serves a purpose as an outlet for the more xenophobic end of the spectrum and is for whatever reason, linked to Russian Soccer in general and the Moscow Dynamo in specific.

Is Russia concerned with and troubled by the UK or with/by the City? Economic warfare is hurting Russia right now and the Soviet Union suffered long under economic pressure from abroad. Some of that economic friction is/was coordinated from central London. Military and political threats are not the only threats.

Well, I guess politicians do feel that City bankers are the potential threat. People in general will be unhappy with our billioners spending their money on real estate and football clubs, and not the fact that our oil&gas companies can't get cheap credits in London banks (however, it could have improved their life a tiny bit, too). I had a couple of corporate VP's here yesterday, and these guys understand pretty well that oil prices are much more important for the future of business in Russia.

Judging by the events of the last 48 hours, I would say Slovenia are Russia's biggest enemy.

I haven't seen the info about any serious clashes, and there were very faint hopes that Russia can show good performance on the tourney. BTW, we have a manufacturing plant in Slovakia, and judging from how they operate, Slovakia is our biggest enemy for a couple of years already ;)))
I, personally, wait till we're out to look for matches with better teams.

Hooray!!

We're number one at something!!!!

I do remember reading an old Pogo comic strip in the Newspaper decades ago. Where he said, "We have met the enemy … and they is us ! " …

Maybe not the whole Britain, but Wales surely. ;P

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It's difficult to play without meldonium…

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In the 19C it was us, the 'Great Game' over the 'stans. The cold War of the 19C.