"U.S. Officials Are Worried On How The Islamic State Is..." Topic

…Able To Inspire Violence.

"U.S. officials are warning of Islamic State's ability to inspire violent deeds around the world, including in the United States, without commanding or having any direct contact with terrorists.

"We are in a new phase of the global terrorist threat," Homeland Security Deputy Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas told a U.S. Senate panel Thursday.

"We have moved from a world of terrorist-directed attacks to a world that increasingly includes the threat of terrorist-inspired attacks, one in which the attacker may never have come face to face with a member of a terrorist organization, but instead is inspired by the messages and propaganda of ISIL," Mayorkas said, using an acronym for the Islamic State group…"
See here
link

What does not help the situation is the refusal by Western government to use terms like "radical Islam" to define who these people are. If you cannot (or refuse to) define them …. how can you then defeat them and/or discount their message.???

Amicalement
Armand

I think you answered that question … "radical islam" …

Ooooooo, you've done it now.

It's not that they're undefined. We just haven't been doing anything about it because we value Free Speech. Social media and propaganda on radical Islamic websites have made local de-centralized "grass roots" terrorism and lone-wolf attacks possible. Things are no longer as simple as the good old days when terrorist organizations are monolithic like the PLO, IRA, Red Brigade and Baader Meinhof.

What should be done is to limit access to these websites or shut them down completely. It's the only form of censorship I support.

Putting a bounty on their heads/hides would work as well.

Look how quickly the buffalo was wiped out when that happened.

Same general principle, and yes, I do equate them with "animals" (even that's disrespectful to the animal kingdom), and not human beings, given how they act, so no need to raise that argument with me.

So we should have suppressed unions because of the actions of the Molly Maguires? We should have invaded Ireland because of the motivations of the Fenians? This position is irrational. You fight propaganda by disabling it. You correct the abuses in your own system which the enemy propaganda targets and highlights if at all possible and you use your own propaganda to counter theirs and point out their weaknesses and deficiencies. It's not all that hard to do unless you wish to maintain those abuses. Then you have a problem.
Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

One problem, Rod. One of their problems with "us" is that we aren't "them". One of our greatest "abuses" is that we aren't all Muslims. There are some real problems the west can fix, but there is real lunacy too.

Tgunner:
Isn't that true about how both sides see each other. Don't we expect an oriental and Islamic world to change and be like us? Which is more lunatic? Imposing Islamic-Oriental mind-sets on Westerners or imposing Western mind-sets on the cultures and peoples of the Middle East? I don't know the answer, do you?

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Nope, I disagree. I don't expect them to do anything except live the way they want and let me live the way I want, and I would say around 90% of Americans I know would probably agree with that statement. I also don't see their way of life as a threat to mine EXCEPT the fringe who would happily say that I'm a Christian so I MUST convert or die. I don't seek their deaths, or wouldn't anyway, but they brought this war to my shores and killed my fellow countrymen and laid an ultimatum to us- convert or die.

Their problem is that they way they seek to impose isn't something that many/most of their people want. Like no education for girls for instance. They don't want girls taught anywhere and view people who teach them as being a threat where ever they are. So I'm their deadly enemy by default- I teach girls horrible things like reading, math, science, and reason. They don't want their girls taught that and view those who would teach such things existential threats… because some of those girls would seek to get out from beneath their thumb and go to a classroom like mine.

I don't seek to impose, but my beliefs are so alien to them and such a threat to them that they won't let me "stand". Worse still to them is that my beliefs are just a click away

Tgunner:

The traditional oriental cultures of the Middle East routinely put far less emphasis on the rights and aspirations of the individual. These have been corporate cultures centered around the family, the clan and the tribe. The notion that an individual has a right to an education and to exercise free will is an alien concept to traditional Middle Eastern mind-sets which ideally view submission to family, clan, tribe, leader and faith to be virtues. Just as you would not respond well to obligations placed upon you by their cultures and faiths, so Middle Easterners who hold traditional views resist your very seductive but also alien ideas and principles, which are being imposed upon them by pro-western governments and elites in their own countries/homelands. The tragedy of this is that the upheavals which you fear and resent and the threat which you seem to perceive from Islam is actually born out of a rift or schism within Islam about how to deal with these western ideas. Islam is in flux and until a new equilibrium is reached, hard and violent times lay ahead.

Now the coin is flipping and the ideas of radical-traditional Islam are becoming more popular among disaffected Muslims and non-Muslims alike, both in the Middle East and abroad. These people, who are growing angry with the moral bankruptcy which they perceive in our culture and way of life, are challenging the cornerstones of Western political-economy. This reaction to Western ideas and beliefs is at the root of the concern and panic which some in power have expressed towards the better PR programmes which are being launched by some radical groups. The powers-that-be in the West realize that the questioning of the central paradigms of Western thought could likewise destabilize our Western way of life and could imperil control of the body politic by influential elites who pull the stings and nudge the ships of state to follow their preferred courses. This could lead to similar rifts and schisms in Western societies as those appearing in the Middle East/Islam, as more and more disaffected people begin to question and challenge the validity of the core principles of western ideologies and governance. That is the real threat. And it is only a few clicks away from would-be reformers and revolutionaries.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Thats all very well Rod but ultimately people who have a problem with female education or gay rights are the ones with a problem and i think we have to be careful not to relativise it to much into sociological talk abotu competing narratives etc. And that to me applies as much to the lunatic fringe of some bonkers Christians in the US as much as it applies to radical Islamists. Its much more than a threat to control of the body politic by elites – its a threat by people living in the medieval age to all of us. We can't change our moral culture to accommodate them I am sorry (not really) to say

GNREP8:

These medieval hackers and PR wizards are a threat to the modern world? You really must choose. Are they anachronistic relics from a by gone age or the vanguard of a new one? Medieval Islam had far more progressive views about women than Europe and America did until the first half of the 20th Century. The mentor and future wife of the Prophet Mohammad was the female trader-princess Khadijah who employed Muhammad to manage one of her caravans. He learned a great deal from her and respected her greatly for her success in commerce. And speaking about the Middle Ages, which side is hiring condottieri, to fight the other? So, there is plenty of medieval to go around in my humble opinion.

If we can't change our moral culture to accommodate them, then why on Earth do we expect them to change their moral culture to accommodate us? Oh yah, I forgot, guns, drones and air strikes. Silly me!

Sorry to sound flippant about this but it seems both sides are pole-dancing around their own myopic axis mundi and neither is giving much mind to the vast and moderate common ground that lies between the lunar poles.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Rod-

LOL!

Are they anachronistic relics from a by gone age or the vanguard of a new one? Medieval Islam had far more progressive views about women than Europe and America did until the first half of the 20th Century.
-------------
come on Rod – you know very well what they see as the moral bankruptcy of the West. Liberal laws on sexuality, lack of belief in God and many other things. I dont see those as areas (I am a Christian) where the West can negotiate to find a common ground or to accommodate them. Sadly accommodation in the UK has led to the police pussy footing around allegations (in many areas) of grooming of young girls by men from Pakistan and other Muslim countries who see white women as morally loose and therefore fair game.

I am sure that in areas like Blackburn and Bradford in the UK where the majority population is now Muslim then in time the councils won't be paying for groups working on LGBT issues etc (which strangely would make a lot of conservatives very happy too but there you go). To be flippant you wouldn't I am sure argue that in the past countries without say a long tradition of anti-semitism should change to accommodate those for whom it was a part of their culture.

I have had discussion with people that say we shouldn't criticise or try to change say the tendency in some parts of Afghan culture to treat young boys as sexual partners – sorry I dont care what cultural arguments can be advanced – wrong is wrong. You will be aware that Canadian troops in ISAF raised this issue and were told unfortunately to keep their mouths shut as it put our allies in a bad light

GNREP8:
I don't think it is appropriate to have a conversation about bacha bazi or the sexual exploitation of minors on this forum so I am going to be circumspect in my response. I will say these predatory vices are deeply rooted in both Pashtun and Pakistani culture (as well as Persian, Turkish, Arab, South Asian and African cultures). Regrettably they are both endorsed and declaimed in various sura in the Quran so Islam is not off the hook either. But this behaviour is practiced for the most part by the rich and powerful in these societies and at least in the case of Afghanistan was opposed and somewhat suppressed under Taliban rule. It came back after the removal of the Taliban regime and has been an increasing practice since then. I make no excuses for this behaviour as it is wrong. Alas, it is also deeply ingrained into some cultures and will not change overnight.

The irony is that some of the worst practitioners of these horrid acts are the people with whom we have allied in our fight against violent Islamists. This is why the Canadians in Afghanistan and the Aussies in Timor ran into serious push-back when they reported what they witnessed. I am ashamed that the Canadian Armed Forces saw fit to bend under pressure and I salute the Aussies who stuck to their guns and stopped the Jordanians(?- memory uncertainty) in Timor despite threats and harassment.

I would also like to point out that the run of the mill Afghan, Turk, Persian, etc. is also disgusted by these practices so there is common ground for both groups to work in and meet.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Putting a bounty on their heads/hides would work as well.

Look how quickly the buffalo was wiped out when that happened.

But buffalo didn't shoot back!

Now the coin is flipping and the ideas of radical-traditional Islam are becoming more popular among disaffected Muslims and non-Muslims alike, both in the Middle East and abroad. These people, who are growing angry with the moral bankruptcy which they perceive in our culture and way of life, are challenging the cornerstones of Western political-economy.

They are in no position to claim the West is "morally bankrupt". The only "flipping" should be the switch of a Drone or Fighter-Bomber's to release it's ordinance load.

If we can't change our moral culture to accommodate them, then why on Earth do we expect them to change their moral culture to accommodate us? Oh yah, I forgot, guns, drones and air strikes. Silly me!

No one is saying that they should accommodate anyone at this point. Just stop committing terrorists attacks on the West. I firmly believe, most Westerners don't really care as long as they are killing each other off. Many in the West have had their own Civil Wars, World Wars, etc. …

And yes, you forgot guns, drones and air strikes. I have not. And only you can decide if you are "Silly" …

He's back!

And with a vengeance !!!! AHHHHhhhhh !!!!