"Future of the hobby - Why do we care?" Topic

There seems to have been a lot of ink spilled in the wargames press of late about the future of the hobby but why do we care? Really, at the end of the day why is it any skin of our collective noses if the younger generation prefer their Play Stations and iPads? It's their loss. Personally I would carry on wargaming even if I were the last wargamer alive and I have enough ‘stock' to last me a lifetime and I suppose it will either be buried with me or chucked away …I'll be dead…

It's a terminology issue as much as anything. RPGs are now known as Tabletop RPGs so distinguish them from ubiquitous computer-based RPGs (actually a very different animal). So what we call wargaming will be called Tabletop Wargaming or Miniatures Wargaming so other people know what we're talking about.

The hobby is dying eh ? How come we now seem to have about 10 times the number of manufacturers worldwide that we had when I started in the late 60's ?

There is always someone who thinks that tomorrow the sky will fall or the horsemen will appear over the horizon to proclaim the apocalypse – they are all wrong.

If it was dying (and literally, at my age, that could be happening sooner rather than later) I couldn't give a damn anyway. They stopped playing the music I liked decades ago, never stopped me liking it or listening to it.

Is it that time already for the monthly 'the hobby is dying' thread?

Has to be the longest death in history. Remember a letter in the first Miniature Wargames I bought back in 1986 I think, bemoaning the end of days for wargaming.

All those hundreds of manufacturers are gonna be in for a shock soon… maybe in another 30 years or so.

A few thoughts come to mind:

First is that the only place I've seen this "death of the hobby" thing over the last ten of so years is here on TMP, haven't noticed it in the "wargame press".

Next, if it dies tomorrow, I'll be coming for your figs, as I don't have everything I need yet, and don't feel like making them all myself (thus you might want to reconsider your nose skin).

And, my theory about the perception of the impending doom of the hobby goes like this:

Newbies haven't been around long enough to know if it is dying or not, but get startled when people talk like this.

Old farts have been doing it long enough that they know it isn't dying, just changing, and often lament that they miss the way it was at some given point when it seemed better in the good old days. Then we get into yet another period and wash away our sorrow.

Guys that have been in it a little while are the ones who think the hobby is dying. You see, the hobby is changing, and they have been around just long enough to remember the way it was when they got involved, but not long enough to realize that it is in a constant state of change. They mistake this change for doom, and start worrying about the end of the world, because something about the hobby that they liked is gone. They remember the way it was as a constant, not a momentary state, a blink of the eye. As they get older, they will learn to blink without freaking, and the hobby will still be here. In time the hobby will still be here and they will not, but they aren't nearly old enough to consider that one yet.

Those darn kids and computing machines, the prepainted figure, and those PDF rules you can't turn the page on. End of the world I tell well back in my day we used to drive 20 miles to a train store and beg them to order stuff.

Why do we care about the future of the hobby? Because it's our hobby! Why do we convince ourselves that it's dying is the real question. Frankly I think the people who lament the 'greying of the hobby' are really lamenting their own greying.

More people playing means more ideas, games, inspirations, and bigger market leads to wider selection of games, figures, and accessories at better prices and available at more locations.
If you are only concerned with your own gaming, then those reasons should convince you.
If you believe that tabletop gaming including painting, making terrain, and your own scenarios are better for young people than the usual video games, then for their sake you can contribute to make your town a better place.

Personally I think we are at the top of the mountain, however I believe it will be a gradual decline from here. The reason being, the last generation to really take up wargaming in a "traditional" (non-PC/Console) form en masse' is now at middle age with quite a bit of disposable income. This is why we are at a golden age IMHO in terms of the sheer number of scales/choices.

Both miniature and board wargaming are affected about the same, the hobby will always be around to one extent or another, but I don't see a new generation taking the reigns to a large degree where easier choices exist (virtual gaming for example). Tech will fill the void (increasing graphics power, VR, 3-D printing).

Boardgaming (mainly Fantasy/SF) seems to have had a renaissance the last several years with millenials, so that is a hopeful sign. How much of that bleeds into miniatures and board wargaming long-term remain to be seen (particularly on the historical side of things). YMMV.

Myself, I am on Steam doing historical and other gaming far more than I game IRL of late. Just easier to fire up a game and go without worrying about all the preparation needed. Will love the hobby til I die though.

Piers nailed it.

Yep, it's NOT dying in any way. It never will for for me regardless and I run games for people all the time so I think they are in for the duration as well.

I use more pdf rules on a tablet instead of hauling around books, flash drives for paper miniatures that are printed as needed. I just find it difficult to find players in my age group. It's a lot better than the sixties where you could only get terrain from the railroad hobby and the Jutland battle was played with Fletcher Pratt rules and balsa ship miniatures.

The hobby may not be dying, but it is changing, and those changes will effect in the future what is available to the wargamer.

Personally, one of the major changes that I see is the amount of rules for every period of historical gaming. There is nothing wrong with people writing and publishing rules, but given the nature of people, the more choices the less we play that period. Why? Because we are not often willing to compromise on a set of rules for a gaming group. It is either we play these rules or I don't play!

The other issue that I personally see is a change that is that with the rising cost of miniatures, the hobby has moved from large battles to games that can be played with less than a 100 figures. This is fine for the gamer, but for manufacturers that rely on moving product to keep going, this doesn't work out that well.

Change or die. Nothing new here.

Look at comics:

Golden Age.

Silver Age.

Bronze Age.

Iron Age…

Oh wait.

Comics are still printed and read. Or online and read.

Give it a rest.

I will collect, play, even paint (sigh, my bane,) and enjoy – when I die my wife will do what she wants with the toys. Maybe she will get them painted!

Winston, I voted no on the two year ban idea but I could make an exception for this subject… but I won't. Vox Populi!

As far as "table top" wargaming is concerned, based on my experience, the hobby is not dying. I am 48 and I have a couple of friends that I game with who are in their early 50s. Everyone else who games with me (about a dozen or so) are in their 20s. If anything, in my area of the country the hobby seems to be growing among the younger crowd.

Kevin

I was lucky to have a pal introduce me and there was something just neat about a tiny, light, unbreakable sculpture of a British soldier with a Bren LMG that appealed to me.

Four things to factor in:

1) I had a **choice** of shops in town to go look at and see stuff in the 70s and 80s.
2) Cons are not the inspirational events they used to be – to the point where it's not worth it to me to go anymore.
3) When I do go, there are tons of young people around. Tons.
4) There will always be an irrepressible human satisfaction in perfecting something, combining paint and sculpture into a finished and attractive gaming piece is highly satisfactory and pleasurable. Nothing can replace that. Unless modeling/painting becomes a breakout video game of the century.

The hobby is changing. Some equate that to dying. Those are the people that don't like change. Personally I don't like the direction but I will still play games in the way I am accustomed to.

My 8 year old son quite likes gaming. He has a good head for following wargames rules.

There are far more roleplayers in this world now than there were say in the early 80s. WotC is still making a business of it.

I just don't see the "death of our hobby" as ever going to come about in our lifetime…at least so long as we are social critters.

Zombie gaming would suggest that it is already dead (well, undead if you're going to be picky).

Change is bad but the dang Universe just won't get the message!

I must not read the standard wargame press (whatever that is) because the only place I usually see the moaning and wringing of hands over it is on TMP.

From my perspective the hobby over the past ten years is better than it's ever been, mostly due to the enormous influence of the internet which makes so many products easy to obtain. The sheer variety and quality available nowadays is unbelievable. I think of the late 70s/early 80s when I first encountered the hobby… we're in a golden age by comparison. A decline in the hobby means less goodies for us. I for one hope that the hobby is still going strong in twenty years, when I plan to be retired and perhaps will have more time for the hobby.

I'd like to see the hobby continue, and suspect that it probably will.

However, since I'll be gone, I'm not overly worried about it.

The fate of any hobby is that sooner or later, it will die, because other things have become more fashionable.

As for wargaming, it is in a very healthy state, as can be seen by the increasing number of visitors at the large wargaming cons – at least in Europe. Perhaps in some geographic locations there might be less activity because of a lack of a shop or organized gaming groups, but that's incidental, not structural.

BTW, people worry about the state of the hobby too much. The hobby is fine as it is.

See also my thoughts on recruiting or not recruiting new blood: link

We're doing better than at any point in history.

As for why you should care?

Unless you're a solo gamer that sculpts and casts your own figures, writes your own rules, makes your own paint, casts your own dice and builds all of your terrain from scratch.. odds are you'll need another person at some point.

Miniature wargaming is in much better shape than stamp collecting.

I do not really care about the opinions of others in regions that I do not go. It does not affect my sales or gaming circle.

I have heard of many pending doom sooth-Sayers even as far back as when I first got into the hobby in 1971. None have came completely to pass. Just normal economic influenced cycles.

There are a few gamers who I really respect (Walt O'Hara for one) who have dedicated themselves to growing the hobby. Good for them.
However, that is not high on my priorities. I like being in my group and gaming with the familiar faces. We have no interest in expanding.
Walt is doing his thing, and seems to enjoy it. Good for him.

Now don't get me wrong. If someone shows up in my area and is looking for compatible gamers, he/she is welcome.
But I do not get out of my way to recruit.
We tried that at a local gaming shop. We all agreed that a bunch of Old Guys trying to recruit teenagers could look awkward.