"The sound of a Thompson" Topic

So Aperantly for saving private Ryan the recorded the actual sounds of a Thompson firing, so you would assume it was as close to real as you can get.

However in band of Brothers and Pacific the Thompson sound is quite different! Much more high pitched. A thinner sound.

Given all three productions are more or less from the same people.
I find it odd. I also lots of other video games and movies give the Thompson a higher pitched sound.

So my question is. How which sound is more correct. And uf it's the bob/Pacific sound that is correct. How come the sound in SPR is wrong if they simply recored the real sound.

Even of we assume for a moment that all three productions used exactly the same recording as the base sound, by the time the sound engineers and mixers are finished blending it, they may sound like three entirely different weapons.

As PR says, editing and mixing can completely change the sound.
That's leaving aside considerations like whether they were recording in the same setting, at the same distance, using the same equipment etc.

And heck, I've heard sound differences from two guns right next to each other, even if they were small.

But then what's the point. If you just mix the sound so much it doesn't sound right, why bother recording it at all?
The sounds are so different they can't both be authentic.

I know sounds change base on surroundings. But again they are so different. In fact the SPR version seem to have a lower rate of fire.

Film recordings (and all other aspects of film-making) aren't made to please nerds like us, but the wider cinema audience. If One sound is deemed to sound "better" than the other, then authenticity goes out of the window

Again why then use it as a selling point of authenticity (which is a lot of what sold SPR)

And it's not only the Thompson, most of the guns sound different. Another clear example is the mg42.

And again in bob it sound much more like the descriptions of mg42 sounds.

Has to something on YouTube to see, would think some of the old WWII movies must have used actual Thompsons, if only with blanks.

I've shot a lot of guns over the years, including full auto, .50 MG's and a 5"/54 naval gun (I was safety observer, I didn't actually get to shoot it). Every time I did, I was wearing hearing protection. If you don't you're stupid. So what's the actual sound of a Thompson? Not the sort of accuracy you should attempt to attain…

I've routinely fired the M27A-1 Thompson, it's semi-auto. Having a 16.5" barrel it's considered a long rifle. It's not the full auto, short barrelled Tommy Gun seen in the movies. While at the range I will also fire a Taurus 24/7 and a Glock 21. All are .45 ACP and I use the same .45 ACP 230 grain full metal jacket ammo in each.

The Taurus has the shortest barrel and of the three provides the greatest recoil and makes the most noise.

The Glock has a good bit of kick and noise but not as much as the Taurus.

Compared to the two pistols, the Thompson is quiet and has little kick. It does way 13 lbs. though so it's a bit of a pig.

I've been on the range when the military version, full auto, Thompson has been fired. It didn't seem to make as much noise as many of the pistols being fired.

When I'm firing I wear ear plugs and headphones.

We have had movies panned because of bad history.
Wrong Tank Syndrome.
Wrong uniforms or facings etched.

Now, the machine guns are in the wrong pitch.
Did you ever wonder why movie moguls don't vet their productions through wargamers?

My question was the disparity between SPR and bob/Pacific

Sorry, I wasn't there so I can't say.

Here is a short clip of a training film comparing an MP-40, Thompson and a grease gun.

It should tell you what you want to know in less than 2 minutes

YouTube link

In my wargames, I just go bang bang.

Ouf… Neither of those three productions had the same audio crew, nor were they operating under the same constraints. War movies are the farthest thing from weapon simulations you'll run into, and for good reason. I know the guy who did the sound for the battle scenes for "Pacific" personally, and based on my recording a number of WW2 weapons with him, I'd say go with that version as "authentic".

Also, keep in mind that Gary Rydstrom's work in SPR, while an amazing piece of work, (that I've studied at length), was meant for effect, not simulation.

That's a very interesting video on mg34/42 vs US 30 cal mgs.

When guns are aimed at you, they definitely sound different compared to firing them or being behind one.

Part of USMC training in WWII was to put marines downrange in foxholes and fire captured Japanese weapons over their heads so they'd know how they sounded different to US weapons.

The Thompson/Grease Gun/MP40 video was interesting mainly due to the different rates of fire it shows.

Let's bring them all together for a quick listen …

YouTube link
Scene from Saving Private Ryan. Thompson fire starts at about 1:10.

YouTube link
Scene from Band of Brothers. Thompson fire starts at about 0:58.

YouTube link
3 SMG shoot-out (same posted by Major Mike above). Thompson fire starts at about 0:47.

To my ear the sound in SPR is the more realistic sound. I have only shot a Thompson once, but the SPR sound seems to me the more authentic. This is confirmed by listening to the movie clips compared to the actual army test firing of the gun. But …

YouTube link
Episode of COMBAT! You can hear Thompsons firing in the background from 0:04 on, but you get a nice long burst from Saunders right at about 11:00.

I put this one is because … sound engineering and/or audio quality in the recording and/or fidelity of the playback medium might well affect the sounds. Still the sound presented in Band of Brothers seems to me the stereotypical sound of a Thompson that I remember from growing up. That is to say, if you watched COMBAT! on TV, that's the sound Sgt. Saunder's Thompson made. And you played army, and you made that ST-T-T-T-T-T sound for the good guys.

Now perhaps that is just the sound that a prop-Thompson made firing blanks in 1964. Or maybe it was just the sound recording/playback media of the day, or whatever, but the sound is quite distinctive. And the one time I fired a Thompson on full auto (and it was something more than 15 years ago now), I clearly remember being surprised that it didn't sound the way I was expecting it to sound. It was much less of a ST-T-T-T-T and much more of a PA-PA-PA-PA-POW. A deeper, throatier sound. Just like I hear in the shoot-off clip above.

And I would not be surprised to find that Band of Brothers team, and Pacific team, and maybe other movie production teams, have learned that that is the sound American audiences WANT to hear from a Thompson. Or it's just that the sound techs in Hollywood know that's the sound Americans want to hear, and if the movie production guys don't specifically guide them otherwise, that's the sound they're gonna get, because that's the sound everyone gets.

Just guessing, but guessing with a little data behind me.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

I woudln't put much stock in the old video, the sound captrue techonolgy was bad back then, and would not at all capture what is sounded like. But since you claim that's what it sounds like to you, I have to take your word for it. As I've never been close to a live fireing thompson.
I can clearly hear the diffrence betweena 9mm pistol and a .45cal pistol as the .45 does have a deeper base sound while the 9mm is more high pitched.

And this more modern video seems to again support a deeper PA-PA-PA sound.

YouTube link
The only way I can see they get that higher pitch in BOB is 1. Somehow higher ROF or they simply did not use real fire sounds like they did in SPR

There could also be differences in the rounds fired, right?

I don't know the difference in the sound of blanks and none blacks.

I assume there is a noticeable difference if you fire super sonic rounds (naturally blanks can't be supersonic)

This could effect say the mg42 and even mp40 and luger.

But the .45 is subsonic. There would be some diffences (because of the gases are not trapped behind the bullet) and so realised under less pressure(less "pop"

Different models of Thompsons have differing cyclic rate that will make a difference. Also where the recordings were made surrounding acoustic effects etc..

I don't know which one of these sounds is more authentic. But I do know this: the participants on this thread have already devoted more time and thought to this than the crews of SPR, BoB, and Pacific combined.

Ehhh…no. You have no idea how much time and effort goes into the sound design and asset acquisition for a major Hollywood film. (Or game such as Battlefield or Call of Duty).

And all that effort is certainly appreciated, but only a handful of people would know the difference between a "real" Thompson firing and a fake one, and even then there won't really be a consensus. As this thread so aptly proves…