"New Perry metal Afghan tribesmen" Topic

Been waiting for the past couple of days to see these very nice new figures on view here at TMP, either in Hobby News via the Perrys themselves, or else here on the 19th Century boards via Tango… but for some reason, it hasn't happened -- or maybe someone posted about it somewhere and I'm just too dense to have noticed.

So, as a Second Afghan War history and wargaming nut of several decades standing, I feel compelled to post about it myself, which I hope will not be stepping on Perry Miniatures' toes or interfering with their plans in any way.

These figures look quite good to me. I assume they will be a bit larger scale than the Wargames Foundry NWF tribesmen sculpted by the Perrys back in the mid-Nineties. But even if they are a bit bigger, their style looks like a close match, which in my book is a good thing, as those old Foundry tribesmen are amongst my all-time favorite figures.

Here are the 4 new packs from Perry Miniatures…

Afghan Tribal Command:

Afghan tribesmen skirmishing with jezails:

Afghan tribesmen skirmishing with Enfields and Brown Besses:

Afghan tribesmen attacking with swords:

LINK to the "Victoria's Little Wars" range on the Perry Miniatures site:

link

But why not in plastic?

Because they are better.

But if the plastic ones are better why wouldn't they make them in plastic? I'm guessing is more the question.

I think the answer is that it is cost. Perhaps they didn't think they would sell enough to justify the cost of making them in plastic.

I agree with Mad Guru. 90% of my Pathans/Afghans are old Foundry. These are GREAT additions to those beauties! Even if they are a little bigger. You will never notice! Thanks for posting!.
Peter
board2deathterrain.com

The main reason I would've liked plastic is the wider distribution the plastic sets get.

Metal I will have to mail order which for the couple of packs I'd get to add to my Pathans isn't effective. Whereas a plastic set I could buy from any number of third party vendors at local shows.

So I shall wait….

To be honest these do not look all that different then the 20 year old Old Glory figures. Most of the poses are identical.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Lovely stuff. Anyone know if these have any period crossover with the new Cape Wars Brits from Perrys?

Were the Brits fighting in Afghan when they wore the Cape Wars kit?

Most of the poses are identical? Wow. Really?

@Ney Ney:

You could use the Cape Wars British Inf (not the officers in wide-brimmed hats) for the First Afghan War.

@Russ:

To be honest your Pathan Tribesmen from 22 years ago (almost exact same age as the Wargames Foundry Perry-sculpted NWF Tribesmen -- those were heady days!) are some of the very best figures Old Glory has ever made, IMHO! I have several units of them which I use side-by-side with my Foundry tribesmen, and will continue to use alongside these new Perrys.

Mine are mostly Old Foundry and Old Glory with some of the new Artizan mixed in. These should work well too. And yes, some of the poses are similar to the Old Foundry – not a bad thing in my estimation.

Not a put down on the Perry's stuff – I think they are great figures!! Just not anything we have not seen before and yes, some of the poses are the same. There are only so many ways you can pose the human body.
I think that is the nature of the hobby now. In years gone by there was quantum leaps in Figure design that made us all go ohhh and ah. I still think the best Vikings ever sculpted are Foundry and Artisans -- will not be beat IMHO.
Now I see figures that I think "seen that, done that" and sometimes even a step backwards. Very repetitive.

The above is me talking as a hobbyist, below is some actual business thoughts.
This is why OG has invested so much time in the Blue Moon 15/18mm ine so as to avoid the ever growing, repetetive, super crowded everything has been made 10 times over 25/28 mm market? PIles of plastics now being piled on the piles of lead?
Hey anybody(at least more then 20 of you) want some 25mm French napoleonics, how about some cowboys, zulus, ecw, I know, I know -- HOW about some rebs and yanks ?????
(Sound of crickets)

Regards
Russ Dunaway

Yep, I stick with Old Glory for my 28mm Pathans! Beautiful sculpts!

To each their own!

As I said above, I remain a fan of the Old Glory NWF range -- which remains the only such range I know of that features packs of WIA and KIA Brits, Indians, and Tribesmen, as well as a very fine pack of Indian Mountain Guns loaded on pack mules -- but I will still be buying these new Perrys.

Why? Because it's a period I love and IMHO they simply look good. I agree some of the poses are virtually identical to earlier Wargames Foundry and Old Glory versions, but others are a bit different.

Also… these days my NWF/Second Afghan War armies feature many larger 28mm Perry, Empress, Copplestone, Pulp Figures, and Artizan Designs miniatures purchased over the past 10 years or so, and I expect these new Perry tribesmen will more closely match them size-wise.

Of course I'm just one customer, and I am not about to "retire" my large collection of slightly smaller scale Pathan tribesmen, but I will be adding to it.

If I gamed that period I would add some to my armies also, I am a "varient" nut. I meant no disrespect for the figures or those that want them.
Just pointing out the repetition in our industry.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

I also have many OG Pathans, and concur that it's one of that company's best ranges. However, I was disappointed to find when I received my pack of Indian mountain guns on mules that those beasts of burden hadn't been updated when OG replaced its rangy-looking horses with better sculpts some years ago.

I have Pathans from Ral Partha, Frontier & Old Glory. I thought the best I had found and were a good value were the Frontier brand, until I bought a bag of the Old Glory, and frankly, was blown away by the value of these wonderful lovely sculpts. The Foundry figures are very nice, just not priced for me. It's my hobby and at the end of the day, it'll be my skill & talent that will make any miniature appealing.

I have 25/28mm Pathans from just about every mfgr that makes them. I have at least one unit of each mfgr, save for Irregular, in my tribesmen force. I will most certainly add a unit or two of the Perry's as well. I love the OG as much as the Foundry, they are both dynamic and paint up well.

Cheers,
JB
sgtguinness.blogspot.com

Superb – very dynamic.

@ Russ I agree with you generally about duplication in the industry but if it's so dreadful a concept to you why did you do an 18mm Napoleonic range when there was already an amazing range available and at least three others, why make a fifth?

Regarding plastic, Perrys have only just released the 1877-1885 British in plastic and these are a new line. They almost always always start a range with metal as they can get it up and running a lot faster, and have to establish if there's enough demand to justify the overheads to do plastic kits.

Timmo uk

Why did Russ do what he did? Because what you talk about is UK and European available and very limited in the US.

Second, the repetition that Russ is talking about has to deal with 5 or 6 companies every year coming out with a new line or 28mm Napoleonics, ACW, Romans, Gauls, etc. In terms of 15/18, when Blue Moon came along, it had been years since anyone offered a totally new line of figures in that scale. Most new releases where companies adding to lines that had been around for nearly 20 years, or where just offering a very limited part of any given period leaving the gamer to use figures created over 20 years ago to finish out an army.

There are two major differences between Bluemoon 15/18mm and other partial lines that have appeared in the last few years. One is that Bluemoon is striving to make complete ranges as time an opportunity allow. The second is that Bluemoon strives to offer a high quality 15/18mm figure at an affordable price,

There's duplication
And then there's DUPLICATION!!!!

Also, where did I say it was "dreadful"?

Regards
Russ Dunaway

As to why the Perrys didn't get these made in plastic, it's probably because injection-molded plastic tooling is tens of thousands of dollars, even when you're getting the "good friends" and "long-time customer/client" discounts from Renedra.

If I had the dollars up front, I'd totally do plastic Zulus and Pathans as a manufacturer (and maybe Boxer Chinese, too). Gamers need lots of them, even when you recycle wiped-out units back onto the table. But the initial cost is an absolute killer.

Nice looking minis, but I will have to stick with doing NWF in 15/18mm. I can afford to field the numbers required for the Pathan Revolt in 1897 that way.

I do find it counter-intuitive that they've opted to produce the British in plastic and the Pathans in metal; the opposite of what they did with the Sudan range. As others have pointed out, as with most colonial subjects, for the British you only need a fraction of the numbers required for the natives.

I read somewhere that the Mahdists haven't sold as well as the Perrys had hoped they would, so perhaps, having been commercially burned by that experience, they're trying to avoid repeating it. But while that explains the decision to make Pathans only in metal, it doesn't explain the decision to make the British in plastic. I can only guess that they believe that there's a much broader market for the latter than the former, e.g. amongst collectors, modelers, and diorama makers.

Points…
- there will be some metal British, though not clear yet how many codes
- the Sudanese plastics do not sell well
- I would imagine you're right Henry, about the plastic Brits being of appeal to model and diorama makers, but even so they clearly represent a commercial risk
- some variations possible with the metal codes, for example when you have a separate sword arm.
It is an odd feature – and one I imagine causes many manufacturers to despair – that as soon as they bring out a new code or range, a whole host of people have the first reaction of asking why they aren't doing something else!
EC

As a point, the British Plastics *are* primarily for the Sudan range – but they'll work just fine for NWF, which looks to be why Perrys have started metals for there. There was a facebook post a few months ago from them that mentioned their intention to cover a lot of colonial wars – this ties in with the Cape stuff, too. The Brits have options enough to pass for Zulu War… 1877-1885 covers quite a few colonial stoushes.

If the Anasar warriors don't sell well, that's a crying shame, as that kit is for my money one of the best 28mm plastic kits ever done. And easily able to be used to cover a variety of non-Sudanese, especially using other kits. Spare fez heads on ACW Zouaves make for pretty good Senegalese Tirailleurs, for example.